Remember when curves were sexy?
(Marilyn Monroe)
picture: dunno source, via our lol builder. lol caption:
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They still are.
YEA! They still is sexy D:<
That sentence just made my eyes bleed.
GO RELAX YOUR EYES ON SOME CURVES.
wow.. shes smexy! she makes large women look good she looks exactly like this girl in my class just older girl in my class is like same size same fattyness same blond hair blue eyes and bit bigger boops
No seriously, learn grammar and punctuation. I promise it won’t hurt you.
Oh no. Here comes the grammar nazi. Run for your lives!
And curves are sexy. All we see now is stick thin people. -Shudders.-
there is NOTHING wrong with being thin
No, nothing wrong with being thin, but EVERYTHING wrong with societies belief that you HAVE to be thin to be beautiful. Thin can be significantly more grotesque then curvy. Seeing bone through the skin is absolutely disgusting.
Agreed!!
Definately. I hate people saying someone has to be 100 pounds and 5 feet 5 to be considered beautiful. That’s not the way God intended. Each person to himself. And everyone is beautiful.
And NOTHING wrong with being fat to..or curvy or long or short…
yea there is! it causes health problems and anorexia! people should have CURVES!
Don’t do what society tells you to look like. You’ll be miserable!
Remember one thing people: GUYS like CURVES and DOGS like BONES! I’m glad to have the shape on Marilyn Monroe. It’s beautiful! You don’t want to look like you’re on your deathbed now do you? EWWWWW!!!!! With sunken eyes and cheeks and NO ass or CURVES. SOOOOOO unattractive! Blaaaaghh!!!!! Look at Beyonce. She’s beautiful cause she has CURVES!!! And she’s happy. People who are thin aren’t happy with themselves because they think they’re too fat and always try to look like what SOCIETY tells them to. It makes me SICK!!!!
Now, I’m NOT saying to get big and fat with rolls but to have some curves that’s great!
That comment was probably written by a 14 year old. Try not to take the retards too seriously.
Also, that is a fine looking woman. Pearce’s woman wasn’t bad either.
This is NOT “fattyness”, it’s a well rounded, healthy WOMAN, not a half starved girl child. May I suggest a dictionary. It’s spelled “boobs”, you boob. A dictionary will also cover the multiple uses of that word.
lol boops XD
she was pregnant, not fat. it’s not noticeable because it was so early on, and then she miscarried. plus, if you look at other pics of Marilyn, you’d see she wasn’t fat.
someone’s done!
Marilyn wasn’t fat, but she was a size 16 when she posed for the cover of Playboy.
A size 16 in Marilyn’s day is equivalent to a size 8 or 10 today. Standard dress sizes in the 40s and 50s are about 6 sizes smaller than they are today, due to a practice known as “vanity sizing”. For example, a size 12 in 1950 would today be labeled as a size 6.
Marilyn was 5.5 and weighed an average of 125 pounds during her heyday. Not as skinny as today’s stars, but in the low range of what is considered a healthy weight for a woman of that height. ( 117 to 155 lbs).
Marilyn was even skinnier than this.
We have hard data on this because Marilyn Monroe’s white dress from the “Seven Year Itch” was recently auctioned off for $5 million on June 18, 2011.
“Monroe’s costume was displayed on a mannequin that had been carved down from a standard size 2 to accommodate the tiny waist. Even then, the zipper could not entirely close. ”
(sourced from http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-24/hollywood-auction-ends-myth-of-zaftig-marilyn-virginia-postrel.html)
The average waist size of the four Marilyn dresses that were auctioned off was 22 inches. The average bust size was 34 inches.
To put a 22 inch waist in perspective, a women’s size 2 petite jeans from the Gap is designed for a 24.5 inch waist (as of 2011).
For tops, a 34 inch bust size is equivalent to a petite size 4 from the Gap (a popular USA clothing retailer, for those people from a nation without the Gap).
Anyway you spin it, Marilyn was thin. Maybe not supermodel thin, but she was definitely thin.
You don’t gain weight and not show the actual pregnancy, typically. Something tells me that’s a highly unlikely story.
she is not fat retard. all the girls out now are just malnourished.
Agreed. Marilyn was lovely.
No human needs to store more than 5 lbs of fat. So now they don’t. Because they know of heart disease and healthy eating. You must clearly be a fatty.
Agreed
She’s not even large. And if you told that to the girl at your school she’d kill you!
lol if thats fat to you go hang urself
The blood from my eyes is dripping onto the floor, creating puddles of the injustices of illiteracy…
I second that!
(or by the time this posts, I 1,000,002nd that!)
I 1,000,003rd that!
Hear hear!
the right kind of curves are sexy. the problem is that most of the curves i see these days are the convex ones on enormously fat american people.
-nod nod-
Difference between nicely filled out lady and heart disease.
x3 She has the ‘nicely filled out’ down quite well I’d say.
Ah, you’re thinking of BULGES
Because only Americans are fat. Obesity is a problem in a lot of the Western world, not just America, so here, have a low calorie class of STFU.
go for a run.
Although yes it is a problem in the Western world as a whole, America has the highest rates by a large margin.
Thats not true.
In the Uk obesity is actually worse. Other problems linked to obesity, such as heart disease, are also worse.
Also, they have higher obesity rates with their kids.
I’ve been to the UK, and I’ve been to disney world.
In that one week visit to disney world I saw more fat people than I had ever seen in my entire life. And believe me, I wasn’t trying to notice *shudder*
Yeah, those people are called “tourists,” like yourself. You think they’re all from the U.S.?
the UK has a significantly smaller population than the US,therefore the UK has a higher percentage of obesity…
still more fat americans than brits…….
so both nations STFU
1% is a large margin?
Amen to that.
Word!
You know she was a size 14 and that is considered PLUS SIZE by todays standards??? What is wrong with the world today?
Size 14s then were completely different from size 14s, I imagine… ^^;
Absolutely different! Sizes have changed even over the last decade.
I believe she was actually a size 8 by today’s standards and cuts.
Actually, she was a size 10 by today’s standards. Yum.
http://www.marilynmonroe.com/about/photos/lloyd_photos.htm
I’m sorry, but that is not the size-14 of today’s standards. if you were to do research, you’d find that marilyn’s measurements were 35-22-35, with weight between 115 and 140 when pregnant.
even snopes has more sense. http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp
honestly, do some research.
There is no way that woman ever had a 22-inch waist, unless she was three feet tall in this picture. Kate Moss had a 22-inch waist in her heyday, and Marilyn is not that thin in this picture, nor was she ever that thin. Audrey Hepburn was that thin. Hollywood measurements back then were often a lie, you have to use your eyes.
Yes, use your eyes. And try looking at pictures from Marilyn’s own “heyday”. She did indeed have a tiny waist. Marilyn went through a period of 3 years where her weight fluctuated up and down a great deal. Some of it was due to pregnancies, others depression eating. However, in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Niagara and much of her earlier modeling work, she WAS that thin.
If someone based their entire opinion on ME by one picture taken at a time when I was heavier, I’d be pretty pissed and insulted.
PS
No matter the reasons for the weight gain, Marilyn was ridiculed in the press for it, so this caption is silly. Women in Hollywood have always been held to a standard few could actually live up to. Marilyn had to actually live up to her own standard of thinness from her starlet days, and not even SHE could do it all of the time. She’d set the bar high.
Still don’t believe me?
http://www.redheadedpoet.com/marilyn_monroe_good_day.jpg
My waist is 25 inches and I know for a fact that she was thinner than me.
Know for a fact, eh? Did you know her in person and/or stand next to her?
I have seen pictures from her “heyday”. She’s got a bit of a tummy in many of them and her thighs are well built. Sophia Loren had the same look too. As for my opinion of monroe, it’s not based off pictures but rather the way she seemed to act in life. She seemed to be a rather lonely, attention starved person. People are so superficial when discussing this woman. All they really care about is the glamorous image. She lived a very unhappy life from what i’ve seen of it. THat’s not what i would call success. The standards are simply someone else’s assumptions, if you are willing to judge anyone by them I think you are a little confused. But in the end, no one knows what her waist size was. and really, did it ever matter? She still died alone, some good having a 22 inch waist did her eh? If you are going to worship at the altar of someone at least make sure they did something worth of that adoration.
Sure. She lived a lonely life and she died alone. So let’s write her off. LOL
I know she was more than a waist measurement, but that was the basis of the discussion.
She studied dutifully at the Actor’s Studio. She dreamed of playing complex roles. She loved Russian culture and she devoured volumes of Dostoyevsky. She loved children and wrote wonderful letters to Arthur Miller’s son and daughter in the voice of the family dog to cheer them up at summer camp.
She testified in defense of Arthur Miller when she knew full well that she might be blacklisted in Hollywood for it which would’ve ended her career.
She helped break down the studio system in Hollywood, giving actors control over their own careers.
She championed Ella Fitzgerald during a time when it was still highly taboo to associate with African Americans, no matter their fame.
But she died alone, so she’s worthless.
I didn’t say she was worthless.
If you’re trying to tell me that, even in the above linked pictures, Marilyn Monroe was EVER as heroin thin in the waist as either Audrey Hepburn or Kate Moss, you’re nuts. Seriously, measure out 22″ of string and make a circle out of it. Even Snopes is retarded. They said that she would be a size 12 by today’s standards, and also have a 22″ waist. There is no size 12 in the country that is anywhere close to a 22″ waist, sorry.
And I’m not ripping on her, I love her and I think she was beautiful. I get pissed that people just can’t accept that she might have had, oh my god, maybe a 30″ waist? That’s still pretty damned tiny.
Well you also have to take into account hips and butt size because that can totally change your pant size.
Actually she did have a 22-inch waist. At the end of her life she was unusually slim, and had been smaller than ever before. Her body weight went up and down throughout her life but she was never plus sized or anything like that.
actually the average size in america is 14, wudnt think it from the media tho
Isn’t it 12?
I’m a size twelve with a flat butt and a pair of of b-38′s.
Pretty if I do say so myself.
I call shenanigans on your gender. Any woman who has ever purchased a bra knows two things. 1) The band size always goes before the cup size. Thusly, you’re sporting a pair of 38B’s not the other way around. 2) 38 doesn’t mean you have big boobs, it means you have a wide ribcage. A 38B is equivalent to a 36A, hardly worth mentioning. Finally, even this lesbian knows a round butt is better than a flat one.
Agreed miss ‘realGirl’. I was thrown off by b-36′s. I thought i was a new clothing brand…
Hehe, I instantly thought, B38′s? I prefer the B52′s!
yes…makes me think the guys that like the skinny little no shapes are either gay because the girls look like little boys or perverts because the girls look like little boys…
What is the problem with that picture…
she is SO not fat!!
DAMN STRAIGHT! I think my boyfriend put it nicely once- The bones are for the dog, the meat is for the man.
She is bangin’ hot. I’d hit it twice.
Um, i thought these were supposed to be funny captions. I agree with the statement but someone needs to teach you the purpose of this website.
Curves like that have been and will be sexy.
Your 200 lb, 5’4″ g/f is just fat – not curvy, fat.
that sums it up nicely
first?
Yeah… those were the days. They’d tell her she’d need to loose weight to model or act today.
Which disgusts me to no end…
The difference between sexy and fashionable is the key point here gents. Its rediculous that the former doesnt dictate the latter.
It’s ridiculous that people don’t know how to spell ridiculous.
And it’s ridiculous the amount of peeps who need to feed their lack self-importance by pointing out spelling errors.
Of course, now I shall be chastised for leaving out “of”.
YOU LEFT OUT OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*FLAME*
BAD GRAMMAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD SENTENCE STRUCTURE!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
It’s also ridiculous how people can’t spell “lose.”
Uhm, she’s just kidding there, guy.
I don’t even know where I put the word “lose” in my post.
That would be because you didn’t.
Tara_Lee3 put “loose”.
Ich auch.
Aside from the fact that the premise is disgusting, the women are disgusting as well. Protruding collar bones, hip bones, ribs… Blech.
Honestly, how is that remotely sexy?
Marilyn Monroe, you were a gorgeous woman.
Women should have curves not points… I may be fat. But I think I look better than the skinny pointy stick figures that we have as models.
And I hate you Twiggy Ramirez you skinny 1920′s twat. You and your drug addled stick form are the basis for our current fashion and I hate you for it with all of my black little heart.
Twiggy wasn’t from the 1920′s…
And I like my hipbones.
isn’t twiggy ramirez the ex-bassist from marilyn manson? why do you hate that dude?
And performed with NIN.
Somewhere in California, Marilyn Manson’s old bassist is suddenly insulted and can’t figure out why. . .
erm.. wrong Twiggy, wrong decade.
Name you wanted was Twiggy Lawson, nee’ Lesley Hornby, b. 1949 in London. The woman you’re thinking of is Sarah Bernhardt and although she was thin, she was still lyrically beautiful and was probably a size 8 in today’s sizes – but she was a lot slimmer than the girls who posed for all the other artists. Art Deco guys like Alphonse Mucha used her image as a springboard to launch an entire artistic movement. Oh and also she was famous because she was an incredibly good actor. Needless to say, the women who stomp unsexily down runways today looking like they’re either going to snap into bits or die of some insidious disease have precisely jack to do with Sara Bernhardt.
Hear hear! Im a size 16 and people are falling over themselves for me! Im not trying to boast (well maybe i am) but i get more than most of my skinny size 3-4 friends. And you guys need to relax on the grammar. Seriously. Its not that bad if they misspell one damn word. If you cant understand them because of their misspelled words…Then its ok. But for minor things? Thats retarded. Go teach a grammar class if your so well educated in the subject. But please spare us of your uneeded prattling.
*I’m
*It’s
*can’t
*it’s
*That’s
*you’re
The thing is: they DID tell her that. She died from a drug overdose and among the drugs she abused over her life were prescription diet pills. Judy Garland, among others, was told the same thing.
WE all think she was hot and America thought she was hot back then. The studios and the rest of Hollywood and their obsession with starvation thought she needed to lose weight.
America today either forgets or does not know that part of the story.
America today forgets or does not know a lot of things these days. Like when you´re fat you eat salads and go to a gym or something, instead of whining about it and getting a stomach surgery. But hotdiggity what is she beautifull
The fashion industry is evil. D:
Yeah.
Models today don’t do their jobs. I want to know what the clothing will look like on ME, not a mannequin.
Models today=FAIL.
Twiggy started it, so she=FAIL as well.
A beautiful, talented woman who would be called a “cow” these days. Attitudes are are seriously messed-up, folks! A size 16 wouldn’t be taken seriously today! Forget the moves, the sweet throaty voice and the sheer attraction!
Remember however that sizes 0 and 2 didn’t even exist at all back then. A size 16 woman from then would be swimming around inside a size 16 dress from 2008.
Yep. For more discussion on the “size 16″ claim, see
http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp
Maybe she was a sewing size 16, and someone misrepresented that to make the argument… I could see that. (Your size in a sewing pattern bears absolutely no resemblance to the size on the clothes you buy in a store.)
But clothing sizes sure have changed… length of garments notwithstanding, I’ve got girls’ size 16 pants from when around 13 years ago when I weighed, like, 75-80 pounds; on the other hand, my niece is just getting out of a girls’ 16 now and weighs around 110.
technically, because of vanity sizing a size 16 then would be around a size 6 or so now… but even a size 6 in hollywood today is considered big for romantic leading lady types. skeletal is in, although i prefer ladies to NOT have the physique of a 12 year old boy.
Blecch. The elsewhere-mentioned Kelly Brook and/or Jessica Biel are perfect size six, and they are terribly attractive.
She was roughly a size 12 in current sizes…not exactly small enough to “swim around” in a 2008 size 16. Also, a size 12 is still considered plus size.
Size 12 is NOT considered plus size. Plus size stores begin at a size 14. Size 12 is the largest “miss” size. When was the last time you went shopping?
I’ve had some health issues lately and I’ve gone from 250lb to 136lb in 9 months. I look gross now – bones poking out and way way too thin. At 5′ 10″ tall, I need to weight about 150-155 to be/look healthy. That would put me somewhere between a size 10 or 12. Not at all “fat” – just healthy and fit.
I love my curves!!!!!
But yeah, one can’t help but notice that thinness is force fed to the modern American public… heck, I’m a size 10 and it seems like the world caters to tiny people even as the fast food industry works hard to make us fatter than ever.
Long Live Marilyn!!!
I have a friend who is a size 16 and wanted to be in musical theater when she was in high school. She has a beautiful voice, but she knew that the entertainment business would not look kindly to someone so far outside their bizarre standards.
I find it rather depressing because I lack an attraction to 10 year old boys. I want cuddly, curvey women…
Oh well, nobody is requiring me to have sex with the stick figures and the curves I love belong to women who need a hug. Mmm hugs…
I do declare, sir, I think I may swoon.
Zaftig women everywhere say “thank you”.
‘Zaftig’ is such an awesome word.
heh heh heh
I share the love for curves as well!!! I always make sure to remind my girlfriend how beautiful she is and always will be
Although seriously, everyone’s made differently. Some look perfectly fine skinny, while others look better with some meat on their bones.
It’s all about the healthy. Some people look fine thin, some others look better with a little weight (see: Kathy Najimy, Kirstie Alley) and a few genetically blessed people look good at any weight. Actually now I think of it, that’s Kirstie Alley again, hehe.
I’ve heard that somewhere before….. hmm
“thinness is force fed to the modern American public…”
If you’re talking about the entertainment/media industry specifically, I completely agree. But there are stereotypes about all sizes. Just try finding a suit – in a plain ol’ department store, none of this high-priced specialty nonsense – when you’re a size 0. Apparently, size 0s don’t need to work for a living (or wear a McDonald’s uniform). I guess I shouldn’t have given up my job in theater to become an accountant after all…
I understand where you’re coming from. For most of my life, I had to were pants too short. I have long legs (34″ inseam). Just try finding women’s pants/jeans long enough just laying around in ANY clothing store. It’s gotten somewhat better over the last 10 years, but most of the time, I have to order on line to get the “tall” jeans with a 34″ inseam. Even then, they are few and far between. Many clothing manufacturers see “tall” as a 32″ inseam…
Yeah, I wear a 35″ to 36″ inseam and am size 5. (I know, I’m one of those bone bags, but it genuinely is how I am built, and I think I look pretty. My dad is a tall skinny rail too!) I feel your pain. Online is really the only way to go. I will say though, If you ever find yourself in Montana, go clothes shopping! There are crazy tall people there and you will find long pants. Good luck!
My best friend when I was younger was a large girl, amost a tank. Although, she was a great person and had an incredible singing voice. Her talent surpassed all the other stuff, and got the lead in her school for Grease and the white witch in Wicked
RIP Norma Jean: you were gorgeous!
I was born in the wrong decade….. : (
Amen to that. This generation of kids make me want to throw up. I would but I fear I might cause a new fad.
‘Cause I wanna be in the generation of kids laughed at the idea a woman like her could be successful as anything but a sex object.
No you weren’t. That era had an epidemic of women eating chalk and taking drugs in order to maintain (or get) that slim figure they wanted. The ideal slim just wasn’t as skinny as today’s; girls and women were still pressured to have it and still veered into dangerously unhealthy means to get it. Only no one talked about it, there was no media attention on it, and the general public ignored it even existed. There was no medical help for women who suffered and no psychological or psychiatric help for those who needed it. Those who died were buried with “how tragic” and the cause was hushed up and never mentioned again.
No, today’s pressure isn’t all that more or less than the past’s. But we acknowledge it exists, which is a big step up from then.
Encouraging people to be even thinner when you’re starting from an even larger average? That means those girls striving to be thin are taking even more extreme measures.
And while we acknowledge those who have eating disorders and the like, we also encourage them to a much larger degree.
Those times were better, as far as body image goes (there were also significantly less “starlets” to idolize)
About the only thing we should get credit for being better about is that now women can be a ridiculously thin C.E.O., or surgeon, or engineer, or…
Personally, I think we’ve done a lot more for women than that, but that’s just my opinion.
What justification do you have for saying that those times were “better for body image?”
How do we “encourage” eating disorders?
I have seen evidence to prove neither.
Apparently you don’t look at television or read magazines.
He doesn’t read internet forums and photoalbum comments when a girl looking reasonably shaped posts a photo and is called “obese” like me.
At least I’m smart enough not to get into eating disorders, cus I’m a mature adult woman. But if I were a high school teen, I prolly would wanna be a stickfigure…
By the way, my photo, so you know…
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/mornmeril/IMG_1955.jpg
hey now, i’m a high school girl who doesn’t want to be a stick figure. i’m 40-30-42 and i like it. why bother throwing up or trying to starve yourself to look like girls made by photoshop. and don’t say that photoshopping doesn’t work because i can do it as a freshman in high school.
There were just as many starlets and they starved themselves just as much, read up on Sandra Dee as one example. They also were forced by the studios to have secret plastic surgeries (like Marylin) or obsessively take diet pills (like Judy Garland and pretty much every other actress) Look at magazines of the time there were dozens of women at the same level as our movie stars of today, most are just forgotten now because people have so little regard for older movies and theater.
In the 30′s through the 60′s every one of those starlets were wearing extremely binding and boned girdles and corsets making them look even thinner than they were, also creating a false ideal.
Idealizing the past helps noone to understand the present.
I was looking through a 1920s memoir type book and there was a picture of the feminine ideal. you guessed it that the model looked a spitting image of Twiggy. Stick-thinness is nothing new in the 21st century, I’m afraid.
RIP Norma Jean and let’s not forget RIP Bettie Page!
Sarah Bernhardt (not to be confused with the annoying lesbian comedian) was earthshaking in that she was ridiculously thin and lithe compared to what was accepted to be attractive at the time, but still beautiful. Back then it was amazing to be able to be underweight, and not y’know, dying from something.
And don’t forget that Hollywood had plenty of leading ladies who were naturally thin, like Katherine Hepburn.
On a personal note, I have been a stick figure (naturally) for most of my life and have always been jealous of women with curves. Finally, at the ripe age of 33, I have them, and I am so happy! I feel like a real woman. The days of having perfect strangers come up to me and ask me if I’m anorexic are over!
I have a friend who’s about 5’7 and 110 pounds. I’m 5’8 and 125. She is always saying “I want to be curvy!!” I think it’s better to be a little on the heavier side and be able to say that I have actual curves than to be “skinny” and look like I’m seven.
(and I know you’re gonna say 125 isn’t heavy, but in my school it is. Most people are below 100.)
They still are. But since you can’t really get away with making fun of much anymore, people have moved onto fat people. Soon they’ll move onto something else stupid like brown hair or whatever the Media tells them is wrong.
Yeah, fortunately I remember right now really well, thank the Lord. = )
We do seem to have gotten away from the really bony ones; I mean, Scarlett Johansson (who’s still teeny-weeny compared to Marilyn or Jane Russell or Jayne Mansfield) has nice curves, as does Jessica Biel and any number of inexplicably famous women named Brook (Kelly) or Brooke (Burke).
I can understand the frustration but have the feeling this caption was written by a 220-lb woman. That’s not curvy or sexy, that’s overwieght. The obsession with body image is certainly more prevalent than it was in those days, but the abundance of obese people in America today is shocking and extremely unhealthy. It’s not okay to justify it by calling it BBW or curvy.
Or maybe, as one Cherokee poetess wrote, “Maybe they’re afraid that if you get a little weight on your bones you might start to throw it around”. Thanks for trying to reinforce the attitude that women are supposed to be 20 pounds underweight! With it being constantly rubbed in our faces every single day, usually more than 10 times per day, we forget that even an ounce of fat is soooooooo unhealthy and unattractive.
There is a difference between overweight and obese, and some people would do better (for themselves, even) to understand that,
and to not shout “PIG” whenever someone bothers to point it out.
Some people may find obese sexy. Most don’t. And it doesn’t fit withing the normally acceptable definition of “curvy”.
I disagree, though, and say BBW would apply to someone who is obese but still found sexy by whomever is applying the term.
It’s a scale. And he was simply saying you’ve used the wrong term.
-
Healthy and sexy =/= stick thin.
But it doesn’t equal codeling someone who is 250 lbs overweight and on a breathing device 24/7 simply because of their weight.
Unless cancer makes you sexy, obesity shouldn’t either.
Don’t define your sexiness by your weight, define it by who you are.
No it is not sexist to point out that obese is not healthy. It IS sexist to assume this is written by someone who is clearly overweight and a woman to boot. That’s a rather (ahem) large assumption. Could be a guy who misses women looking like, ya know, women instead of 12 year olds with bad boob jobs. Or a healthy woman who is tired of feeling fat because the TV tells her she is.
During college, I had very nearly the same measurements as Norma Jean. I was not fat then (though I won’t speak to now, LOL!) but I was made to think I was because I didn’t conform to the so-called standard. It’s crap. We should call it that. Women have many healthy shapes and they should be celebrated, not judged. Real women have a little fat on them – it’s necessary for us to be healthy.
Being obese is a far different matter. I don’t think people should be vilified for being overweight but I agree they should work to be healthy.
Who says cancer isn’t sexy?
I’m only saying this because I want to make the point that sexiness is a subjective thing. My opinion of what’s sexy isn’t going to be the same as the next guy, and his/her opinion will differ, and so on. You can’t blatantly declare, “Obesity isn’t sexy, cancer isn’t sexy” unless you quantify it by adding “to me”.
I am overweight and I have had cancer, and so I know a bit about this. True, I didn’t find my cancer sexy, but while I was going through my treatments, my husband’s desire for me didn’t decrease in the slightest. Bottom line: he found his overweight and ill spouse sexy. In fact, he had a nickname for me: TCW, which stood for “Tasty Cancer Wife”.
What I’m trying to say is that we should leave a little room in our minds for the possibility that what we think and believe isn’t the only way to think and believe. Declaring other people to be “unsexy” or to imply that they are wrong for being a certain way (that differs from you and/or your opinion) is to take the narrowest possible approach to seeing the world, and if you do that, you’ll be missing a helluva view.
“Don’t define your sexiness by your weight, define it by who you are.” I agree completely with that statement.
I actually agree with you.
Monroe was beautiful, of course. However, even though the MEDIA continues to have a love affair with anorexic women, it only exists IN THE MEDIA. I’m not saying that’s not important or influential….But the whole “curves are sexy” response isn’t really relative when we’re talking about obesity or people overweight enough to be borderline obese.
Obesity IS NOT sexy, in fact, it’s entirely UNHEALTHY. And, unfortunately, obese people have become more and more commonplace:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28582253
Are you seriously implying anorexia is not a problem in the general population? ‘Cause I know some docs and mental health pros who would be REALLY surprised to hear that. Yes, yes, obesity is on the rise. Blah, blah blah! We know that is a problem too. What does that have to do with the problem at hand? The pic is about this societies’ stupid obsession with an ideal of woman that is un-healthy for 99.9% of us. It’s not a new problem of course (women died of anorexic behaviors as far back as the 1800s for sure and probably earlier, I just don’t know much about it before then.) Incidentally, the issue is also a problem for men – all that steroid-pumped, 0% body-fat BS is just as dangerous to men’s self image and health as the twiggy look is for women.
I NEVER said that anorexia wasn’t a problem. However, as someone who has had an eating disorder and as someone who has spent a lot of time studying them (for the aforementioned reason) the “MEDIA’S” obsession with thin women is NOT a CAUSE of anorexia nor ANY OTHER eating disorder.
And, as I said, the majority of people in “normal” life do not look for stick-thin-looking men/women to be romantically interested in.
I am sooooooooo tired of the whining and complaining about the ever-ambiguous media and it’s glorification of anorexic-looking women. YES! We KNOW that the media does this! That does NOT mean people should use it as an excuse for being unhealthy / obese / significantly overweight or to justify laziness, over-eating and refusal to exercise.
Yes, chemical imbalances in the brain etc. are the ultimate cause of eating disorders, but the images presented in teen magazines, on television and the movies etc are a catalyst to them. There are any number of studies linking young girls’ dissatisfaction with their bodies, the increase in dieting among younger and younger kids etc. with the media’s presentation of ever thinner women. The media reinforces the idea that people are not good enough as they are and certainly doesn’t promote healthy life styles – pick up and women’s magazine. How many of them talk about moderate diet and exercise as the best way to maintain or lose weight? No, they all have the latest “fad” diet that is “guaranteed” to lose x pounds in some startlingly short time. Largely these are unhealthy, unbalanced ways of eating. Exercise is not encourage because *gasp* you gain muscle. Can’t have that. You GAIN weight if you gain muscle. Yeesh!
And if you really think some guys and girls aren’t trying to find mates that match that ideal you obviously haven’t been on the dating scene in SoCal. All the single guys I know won’t even look at the single women that aren’t waifish with big boobs. It makes me crazy.
I really don’t think say “curves are beautiful” or natural on a woman is even remotely the same as saying it is OK to be fat. It’s just saying that the current body expectations of our society are completely f*cked up. And wouldn’t it be nice if women could be happy with a healthy body instead of made to feel fat because they don’t conform to an impossible ideal? Big difference there.
Wow, I really love the way you people go off like every fat person deserves to be obese and should be picked on. I’m a vegetarian, I walk 4 miles to and from work every day, I work out, and I am STILL over weight. I have STARVED myself because of people like you. You people make me want to kill myself, literally on a daily basis because I’m constantly reminded how fat I am. Apparently I don’t care about myself. I do yoga, I strength train, and jog (oh my god that must be hilarious, a fat girl jogging lets all go watch)! I live on vitamins and barely eat because I’m SO FAT. When I do eat it’s healthy vegetarian food. I TRY and TRY and still so many of you people would call me obese and say that I don’t care about myself and that I must just sit on my ass all day and eat fast food. News flash, I don’t! There are many of us out there who try. I’m a firefighter, I can lift a grown man easily, and I am a FEMALE. Yet for some reason despite all the good things I do in life, all people can focus on is how FAT I am. I wish I could pin point the people who think like you, so that if I ever have to save your life I can suddenly fake whatever ill effects you think it is that all we “obese” people have, then neglect to save your life. Sorry I wasn’t blessed with a great metabolism, go take it up with god for me. Maybe I’ll just kill myself to spare your eyes the horror of seeing another FAT OBESE GIRL since you have to REMIND ME OF IT EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE. God knows it’s totally fine to be a fat man as long as you’re not over 400lbs, but a fat GIRL, no, I deserve to die. I don’t care about myself. I should starve myself to the point of death just to make you happy. Sounds GREAT! You make me loathe myself all because of my appearance. I guess altruism or character doesn’t count for anything in this world anymore.
You deserve a hug.
Some people are just built heavier than others. If you are doing all that you say you are, you sound very healthy to me.
I actually have a very good guy friend who prefers heavier girls. I asked him about this one time, and he replied “I just love big women. I don’t want a girl I can break.”
Agreed, the media can act as a catalyst to EDs….but guess what? You can turn the TV off. You can stop reading magazines. You can cut that part of the media away. And if the person in question is too young to do that for themselves (and many are only chidren, I agree) then it is the right and obligation of the parents to reinforce healthy mentalities and behaviors.
Additionally, there are now and always have been advertisements for miracle diets…but who is advertising them? It’s not doctors. It’s not even magazines, which generally follow the “eat healthy and exercise to lose weight” guides, too (even though they mask them as “Lose 5 pounds in one month!” to get those wanting the quick fix).
The media is ONE catalyst. There are many, many more and yet they don’t have fingers pointed at them nearly so often. ALSO……. EDs ARE NOT ABOUT WEIGHT. Let me put that out there. The “weight” issue is a mask for issues of control, etc.
I hesitate to blame the “media” for anything because generally speaking the media is only showing us what we want to see. If 90% of the population of America said, “Eh. I think the Victoria’s Secret models are hideous!” and stopped endorsing VS merchandise / etc then they probably wouldn’t continue modelling those particular women.
All body types maintain their own beauty – curvy, thin, etc. Not all body types are fit or healthy.
“And wouldn’t it be nice if women could be happy with a healthy body instead of made to feel fat because they don’t conform to an impossible ideal?”
You can. Women can. This is another argument I get really tired of. No one is “making” you (general “you”) feel anything. Sure, you can see pictures of thin and beautiful other people and feel body dissatisfaction, but ultimately that is coming from you as YOUR OWN dissatisfaction with YOURSELF. There is a point that people should stand up and say, “I’m an adult! I’m healthy! And as a healthy and fit adult, I consider myself beautiful and worthwhile!” They even have people to help others do this now – they’re called therapists.
“And if you really think some guys and girls aren’t trying to find mates that match that ideal you obviously haven’t been on the dating scene in SoCal. All the single guys I know won’t even look at the single women that aren’t waifish with big boobs.”
That’s a problem with those men, not the women. If that is the case, why would anyone want those men? And if you don’t want them, who cares what they think?
“You can turn the TV off. You can stop reading magazines. You can cut that part of the media away.” Gods but I love when people make this argument. Right! Seriously. No one can turn of/tune out all of the media’s influence. It is all pervasive. And even if one person can successfully tune it all out, what about all the other people who surround us and judge us by our looks alone? Hello, peer pressure! (Also a large part of the eating disorder phenomena.) WHich is also another argument against the whole “parents should just turn off the tv and keep their kids away from this. Gods, wouldn’t I just love to be able to! But absent becoming a Luddite and moving to the middle of rural Alaska or something, ain’t gonna happen.
Yes, I understand that media is partially “just” reflecting our society – sex sells and society sees thin as sexy. But advertisers (which is really the whole point of media) are invested in “solving” problems we don’t actually have – “buy this underwear because it will make you sexy” or “buy this mag to learn about this fad diet because it will make you thin.” Because we are not good enough as we are, they must sell us things to make us better. And the major way media tells women we need to improve ourselves is by being thinner. I know that eating disorders are about control – but the fact is that this is something young girls (mostly) think they can control and that is partly because they are told they can and must control it.
“No one is “making” you (general “you”) feel anything.” I’m 36 years old and have struggled for years with my body image. I’ve been a tom-boy most of my life and largely stayed away from fads and “girlie” dress – I actually don’t read women’s mags myself (but I see them all the time regardless – always in your face everywhere you go) and I thought I was immune for years to the slings and arrows from tv etc. But it just isn’t the case. And then there is that peer pressure thing. People telling me I could stand to lose some weight got to me after a while, no matter how many times I try to tell myself “you are beautiful.” (Or tell them to f*ck off!) I’m fortunate to have a wonderful husband who loves me and tells me how sexy and beautiful I am but there is still that voice in the back of my head that says I don’t look like the girls on the mag so I can’t possibly be sexy and beautiful. If someone who really doesn’t give a crap about fashions etc (and who has a degree with a minor in Women’s Studies btw) can get suckered into believing the crap on a subconscious level then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. The fact is that we are social creatures who get our sense of identity to a large extend from one “the group” (anywhere from your family unit to the wider media) tells us. That’s evolution in action right there.
“That’s a problem with those men, not the women.” I never said there was a problem with the women. Or that I really care what the guys think (other than because it hurts the single women I know.) I merely offered that as a rebuttal to your statement that no one looks for this ideal in real life. Unfortunately, they do.
On the flip side, yes, there is a problem in the Western world with obesity. I don’t agree, however, that saying “curves are sexy” is even remotely the same thing as saying it’s OK to be unhealthy. Nor do I feel the need to vilify people for being overweight (as the person above made clear, one can be fit and healthy but still be considered overweight.) There are a large number of reasons why obesity is on the rise in this society, many of them stemming from decisions made at levels well above the average person’s control. The fact that fast/frozen food is much more prevalent/cheaper than fresh food is one of the major causes. Fortunately we are seeing a lot of pressure to change that. I love the slow and local foods movements. I love our local farmer’s market. I LOVE that my husband cooks at home (and does so very well.) These are steps in the right direction. But I have much more control over that than what is displayed in the check out stand…
I’d kill to be 220lb.
I think I might actually have breasts and an ass at that weight.
As someone in the low 240s, let me say that having boobs and an ass is wasted at this weight because you become invisible to everyone but the chubby-chasers, 99 percent of whom are creepy.
This whole discussion disgusts me. People actually think they have a right to tell a woman how much she should weigh, whether judging her for being too thin or judging her for being too fat. If we were all the same weight within the “proper” BMI range, then we’d suck for being boring with too little variety.
BTW, unless a specific case of obesity is actually tied in to a health problem, there is no evidence that being fat in itself is a health risk. You pretty much have to be diabetic or so fat you can’t move before obesity has a positive correlation with increased mortality risk in most cases. And because we’re focused on fatness as being THE unhealthy condition to avoid, there are slender people walking around with undiagnosed metabolic syndrome and diabetes because all their tissues are becoming insulin resistant at the same time, rather than first lean tissues and then fat, as with obese people who are becoming diabetic.
We really need to address what is considered “healthy eating” and “healthy behavior” in this country. Grains are an unnecessary part of the human diet, running on a regular basis is NOT healthy exercise, and we need a lot more fat in our diets than most of us are getting. But it’s much easier to pick on fat people than it is to change various socio-economic conditions giving rise to greater obesity. Go figure.
hear hear
Wait…Grains are an unnecessary part of the human diet? Where the f*** are you getting your information? Whole grains provide a multitude of health benefits, not the least of which being that CARBS are BRAIN FOOD. Your brain cannot run on proteins and fats. For optimum brain functions, a supply of carbohydrates is necessary.
The problems with individual weight problems in America (which, by the way, ARE being shown to contribute in a very real way to an increased risk of such diseases as heart disease, stroke, and certain cancers, despite what you have rationalized yourself into believing) are mainly a basis of PORTION CONTROL. American’s, as a general rule, eat WAY TOO MUCH at each sitting, and do it WAY TOO FAST. Sitting down for a 15 minute meal at a restaurant or fast food joint, during which time you cram a 1-lb. slab of whatever meat you fancy that night, along with between 1 and 2 pounds of side dishes (even low-carb ones…) totally defeats your body’s hunger/satiety reflexes. Your body is stuffed to the proverbial gills before it has time to tell your brain it’s full and stop eating.
There’s a REASON most European countries take 3 hours to eat an evening meal, and have between 3 and 7 courses. This allows the body to both process the amount of food it’s eating, inform the brain that it is full, and better control the portion sizes being ingested. Plus, as an added bonus, you get to actually *gasp* TASTE what you are eating and ENJOY it.
By the way, PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I’m NOT, in any way, condoning the prevailing attitudes in America toward women’s body image. I personally find women with stick figures and no curves repulsive. My wife a wonderful woman, but would likely be told she needs to lose between 10-20 pounds if she wanted to be in any type of media outlet. (thankfully, she has no such ambitions.) I also have known many women through college and after who are approaching the 200+ pound mark…the thing is, that weight suited them, and they did not appear overweight at that point, and in fact most of them I found very attractive. When a woman’s body shape no longer resembles, even remotely, an hourglass/pear/name-your-shape, and begins to take on a distinctly Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man appearance, that’s where I draw the line. It’s all in how much weight your frame should handle. Your argument about everyone being in the same BMI range creating a race of “cookie-cutter sameness” is invalid, because a BMI range will produce different weights in different heighted people…A Lady who is 5’2″ won’t weigh the same as a lady who is 5’11″, even if their BMI is identical. BMI is a ratio, not a fixed quantity. Lrn2math.
while i agree with most of what you are saying some things are wrong. grains aren’t fit for human consumtion as grains play havoc with your horomones(mostly your insulin response) which causes you to fatten up and still want more food. while true that they do provide a large number of nutrients and health benefits, the problems associated with grain input are best avoided if you have any metabolic issues in your bloodline, and you can acheive the same nutritional benefits from various fruits, vegetables and meats without the horomonal havoc. Grains are like using plywood. it gets the job done and is cheap, but its not the best solution, and in some cases it should be avoided like the plague. Milk not from humans is also best avoided as, unless its fermented, its protiens and sugars are not properly digested by humans. Cow milk protien also increases the amount of calcium in your urine(as most HIGH protien diets are want(sp?) to do, which can icrease kidneystones and osteoporosis. Calcium is also obtainable from other sources. Also portion control is a problem but the large amount of grains and sugar (the white poison) hidden in food make portion control difficult since both increase food cravings. they also increase fatigue, joint and muscle pain and mucus prodution. Milk sensitivities have been linked to respirtory conditions, acne and thyroid conditions. if you experience such symptoms it makes it hard to exercise off that extra serving at dinner of the meal you really enjoyed. for some people sugar, grains and milk are as addictive and detremental as crack.
Not ment as an attack. Please dont take it as such. I just get irritated when i hear nutritional falacies(sp?)
“grains aren’t fit for human consumtion”
You are insane.
They may play havoc with SOME people’s hormone levels, but if I didn’t have my complex carbs every day, I’d die. Period.
You know what else has complex carbs….FRUIT & VEGGIES. But thanks for calling me insane because that just validates your opinion oh so very much. let me ask you a question…what grain can you eat without cooking it? I am not a raw foodist but if you can not eat it without cooking it it is not fit for human consumtion.
chubby chasers are not creepy, though they usually are very underweight.
All of my boyfriends have been chubby chasers.
while I’m not extremely obese, I am overweight. So a few of my ex’s have actually tryed to make me gain weight, which I find cute.
Sorry, you’re a little off. Grains are an extremely important part of the human diet; running is great exercise for those who don’t have joint problems or any cardiovascular issues (which would be the vast majority), and Americans get PLENTY of fat in their diets. The average meat-eater gets about 200 percent of the USDA’s recommended allowance daily, which I guess since the USDA said so, means it’s wrong, right?
agreed.
There actually is evidence that having more belly fat increases risk of other health disorders. Even if you are an “average” or skinny person with above average belly fat.
Considering that I have a 29-year old friend who’s 5’6″, 130 pounds, and her last cholesterol reading was in the mid 200′s, well said.
I can’t support that attitude either. I’m sorry but if you can’t be comfortable in an average movie-theater seat then you are either an Amazon or you have a weight problem.
haha I’m an Amazon then.
I’m 6’2.
Honestly I’m 5’10″ and 215 and I’m really not comfortable in a movie-theater seat.
Thats because your overweight.
At the moment I’m underweight, yet no matter how much I eat I cant seem to gain weight.
Two fifteen isn’t *that* overweight for a guy built like me. I’m not exactly a pencil-necked geek. I could probably lift you overhead on one hand. Guffaw. I’m not a musclehead either tough.
220-lb woman. That’s not curvy or sexy, that’s overwieght.
I’m sorry, but I take slight offense to that. I’m 230lbs, but I don’t look it at all. I think you should do a little reading, especially on what may weigh more in the body. A woman can be 220lbs and be perfectly healthy.
People need to realize that weight isn’t always what is considered healthy, or unhealthy, but the amount of body fat- and yes, there are 220lb women with healthy amounts of body fat. :/
Wow 220 lbs, so that’s the cut off limit for sexy, huh? I find it interesting that many people in this thread can point to a certain weight (200 lbs, or in this case 220) and say that it is always unhealthy and unsexy. You aren’t taking height and body type of individual people into the equation. For example, a woman who is 6′ tall probably won’t have the same frame as one who is 5′ 5”, and thus the taller woman more than likely will be able to carry the weight better. I also find it fascinating that the majority of those determining what or who exactly is or is not sexy or unattractive or obese in this thread seem to mostly be males. So in many ways this thread is a microcosm of the way society actually functions: a woman always judged by her body and a man always doing the judging.
Well, a lot of us women judge each other, too.
But I agree with the absurdity of putting a cutoff weight on sexy.
Doesn’t muscle weigh more than fat, anyway?
yes, muscle weighs more than fat
they still are. honestly, as a skinny woman myself I find people ridicule smaller bodies sometimes. (real women have curves, anyone? gee I never realized I had man parts because i’m not a size 16) however, i think some guys like skinny girls and some like more curvy girls. it depends on the person. both skinny and curvy are both ridiculed and loved. but really, i think several body types have their own beauty to them. perhaps people should quit judging people for what they find beautiful, quit worrying about whether or not they are a certain weight, and quit talking crap/ridiculing other weight brackets to feel good about themselves. i mean, yeah, there is a problem if they’re too skinny or too fat, but if people eat healthy and exercise right chances are their natural body weight has an appeal to it, even if it’s skinny or curvy.
besides, my parents tell me women were skinnier back then
I’m skinny too and people don’t just ridicule me, they accuse me of having an eating disorder which is so hurtful and disrespectful to people who really do. I know someone who is naturally very thin and someone once came up to her in a nightclub, grabbed her arm, and told her it was disgusting.
Would someone ever feel entitled to do that to someone overweight?
And yes, some men do prefer women to be more curvy but I’ve also been told “I know it’s not politically correct to say so, but I like my women to be thin”.
Yep, people would do that to a fat woman. (I’ve never seen it done to fat men, but I don’t know.) I have had that done, had McDonalds bags thrown at me while I waited for my partner to pick me up, had people walk up to me and say “I’d kill myself if I were as fat as you.”, had someone tell me that I was the reason there were starving kids in the world – in all seriousness, he believed that fat people in the US were the cause of starvation in other places. And that’s NOT the worst thing that has ever been said to me about my weight/size. So, yeah. I wish people would get a grip – it’s NOT okay to make fun of someone for their body size. In fact, it’s absolutely NONE of your business if it’s not your body.
Acutally, fat North Amerians are one of the leading causes of world hunger, along with mismanagement of crops and unwillingness to share what they have. Fat people simply should never have existed because that amount of extra weight would have killed us or caused our deaths because of how severely it would hamper normal hunting, gathering and etc. Simply put, fatties should get what’s coming to them and move to some place like Africa to see how most humans actually live.
Fattygocry; You’re either being inappropriately sarcastic, or you’re totally retarded. Do us ALL a favor and STFU.
Hey fatty, quit being a jerk and do the world a favor, pull your lip over your head and swallow.
It’s ok to like women to be thin.. Unless you are the media and all but outright say “ALL women should be thin”.
And I’m sure you are beautiful.
In college I had one of the most beautiful thinner girls sit down and talk with me and She complained about not being able to gain weight and having to eat hordes of food to keep any amount of meat on her body. We envied each other. I was chubby and she was thin.
Women were thinner back then because a large portion of us are fat now. Those of you who are thin get to have the extra added honor of being accused of not eating enough and those of us who are fat get to be accused of being lazy.
@ Rox – I have a very good friend who is naturally incredibly slender, and she has people all the time who try to “help” her with her apparent eating disorder.
She’s very healthy though. She eats right and exercises, and she used to be very confident in her beauty, but once people started to accuse her of having anorexia, her self esteem dropped like a rock and now she’s embarassed of her body.
I agree with you, and I believe Marilyn was one of the “chunkier” models and actresses, if I should even really be calling her chunky at all. I’ve always found that the saying “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” to be very true. People come in all shapes and sizes and the same goes for how they percieve things. Marilyn was considered sexy not only because of her appearence, but because of her confidence and charm. I’m sure there are certain people who don’t find her attractive at all, similar to how not everyone finds todays models attractive.
As a fat woman, I have occasionally found myself defending slender women from other fat people who feel the need to accuse the slender of having eating disorders, starving themselves, etc. OK, if her bones are showing, it’s probably an eating disorder. And they still don’t need to insult her about it; that’s not going to help her get better.
Exactly.
O noes, I’m 6′ and weigh 135 lbs. Obviously any man who finds me attractive is only after “12 year old boys.” Because there’s no way a woman could look feminine at my weight. Seriously, people need to stop with the “12 year old boy” or “real woman” comments.
you actually sound quite balanced out
remember when girls would actually cover themselves up so they wouldn’t be considered fat?
if she were wearing a tiny bikini, she WOULD be fat.
Only because we believe that women should be skinny and have a tight, tiny, taut tummy and big boobs to wear a bikini. Also, making sure that all women KNOW that to be sexy in a swimsuit it has to be in a bikini so you show off how tiny you are and how nice your boobs are and make guys think about what you look like naked.. See the term “Nicely filling out a bikini”. If OTHER swimsuits were sexy, “fat” wouldn’t be an issue. Also, having a tight toned taut tummy should not be thought of as the “norm” for a woman to feel confident and beautiful in any swimsuit she owns. Forgive the randomness of this post I am super tired and thinking about how people would say I am “fat” in a bikini and tell me how disgusting I look. And, because of all this and the media how self conscious I would feel in a bikini. Blech.
Women are supposed to have soft, squooshy bellies. That’s sexier than any boobs or butt ever in the whole universe. = )
Awwwww.. That’s adorable! Thank you!
The tight tummy thing sucks. Do most people realize that after having children some women’s stomach muscles actually SEPARATE? Try to get the perfect tummy after that without getting surgery to sew them back together.
Why don’t we all just try to accept others? Why is it acceptable to make fun of very skinny/very large people? Just leave others alone.
I’m sorry, but I’ve seen Marilyn’s measurements and I ‘m actually a bit bigger than she was in the hips and waist, but even when I wear bikinis I have never been considered fat. Just because she doesn’t have a six pack doesn’t mean she’d look fat in a bikini.
AngelMax: though i agree with your statement, i don’t think its the food industry that works hard to make us fat. People make themselves fat by eating it. No one is forcing the public to eat fast food all the time.
If advertising didn’t work to convince people to do things, corporations wouldn’t use advertising. I think it’s TV advertising in particular which is the most convincing. We humans are a visual species and as a social animal, very much into “monkey see, monkey do”–if we see moving images on a screen of people doing something and apparently having fun at it, it motivates us to want to have fun along with them, doing what they do.
The other piece of it is that human beings as carnivorous-leaning omnivores naturally crave fat; it’s important to both human metabolism and physical structure. What fast food places do is take a lot of starchy junk like buns and fries and combine them with fat to make them more appealing for people to eat. The fat by itself, contrary to popular opinion, would not be that big a deal. The greasy buns and fries washed down with sugary soda, on the other hand, place a heavy strain on the pancreas to produce enough insulin to keep up. Insulin’s the fat-packing gene. Without insulin you don’t gain weight, which is why type 1 diabetics are almost universally thin.
Morgan Spurlock quite aside, I can go to Wendy’s and get an “unhealthy” Baconator, throw away the bun and get a Caesar salad on the side and it be a perfectly healthy meal apart from the small amount of trans fats and the sodium. I’ve lost weight that way. I know of others who have too.
Dana I’m going to have to disagree with you. Although you said “almost” all type 1 diabetics are universally thin, I think you’re stretching it a bit far.
I myself am a type one diabetic and have gone to workshops and summer camps for type ones and many were in fact over weight. This is because although our pancreases no longer can create insulin, we are still getting it. Just through methods like site injections and insulin pumps. Even with exercise and the supposed correct dosage of insulin, we still struggle to maintain our weight because as you said insulin is “fat-packing”.
The real problem is many diabetics do not take part in a full healthy routine to control their bloodsugars, specifically exercising, so without their bodies working with the insulin to use up those extra carbs and calories the insulin instead stores it away in fat cells, causing major weight gain in a short span of time. Losing weight is already difficult and getting a constant flow of insulin 24/7 makes it harder. While a normal person’s pancreas only supplies insulin to the body when it needs it, type ones are getting insulin all the time because it’s the best way to attempt to control bloodsugar levels.
Yes, type ones are usually thinner than type twos, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t overweight.
The other problem, and this goes for all of America, not just diabetics, is that we eat such large portions. Type ones cannot eat like that without gaining weight because of all the extra insulin that is used to cover such carb heavy meals and the amount of fat that is usually found in the typical American meal. Fat slows down the absorption of insulin causing high glucose levels to last longer, thus doing damage to the body and putting what insulin can get to absorbed to go into overdrive, storing the excess sugar in fat cells to clear the body as quickly as possible.
The best way to maintain healthy weight and bloodsugar levels are by having a “grazing” diet. Eating five to seven very small meals throughout the day. That combined with a reasonable amount of exercise is how type ones stay “thin”.
And I’m speaking from experience here, I’ve been at both ends of the rope and that is how I lost weight I had packed on from excess insulin and lack of exercise.
Yes, it is very affective. But they aren’t forcing you to go out and buy a burger. People aren’t robots that go to Mcdonalds because a commercial told them to. Yes, fast food is unhealthy, but its the individuals choice to go eat there. Think about it, if fast food was totally healthy, it wouldn’t taste as good, and that would mean less costumers. Of course thats wrong, but thats how people are. They want food that tastes good. The fast food industry works hard to make money, their goal is not to keep you on a balanced diet, or to make you fat, but to make money. If you want a balanced, healthy meal there are other options. My point is, people shouldn’t blame fast food for making them fat when they themselves chose to eat there.
I’ve seen quite a few of your comments at this point, and you are sadly and horrifically mistaken in your views on nutrition.
You cannot throw away a bun on a baconator and eat a caesar salad and be “healthy.” ATKINS WAS AN IDIOT. EVEN IF you do that, the “baconator” has 51 grams (!!!) of fat and 1880 grams (!!!) of sodium! As for the “salad” – another misconception. You’re eating iceberg lettuce (no nutritional value, esp. fiber) and MAYBE tomatoes topped with cheese (fats, albeit protein when eaten in moderation) and salad dressing (full of calories and sugar).
As far as your (again) misinformed opion as to the dangerous “fats” combined with the starchy foods and insulin resistence – those fats are actually preventing your body from experiencing a “shock” of insulin when you eat them because there is so much sugar in them. I’m not advocating french fries for a diet ANY day, but you don’t seem to have a solid understanding of how some functions of your body work.
Vegan diets ARE quite healthy, especially because they eliminate a lot of unecessary sugars AND unhealthy fats. If you “gained” weight by having a vegan “diet” then you simply were not eating in moderation.
No matter WHAT Atkins or South Beach or anyone proclaims, the ONLY way to be healthier is to eat in moderation, exercise and cut out or minimize excess sugar.
Remember when intelligence, wit, humor and grace were sexy, and body type didn’t matter? … Oh right, hasn’t happened yet.
AMEN Mizu. I am with you. What a superficial society we are.
I vote we return to the Age of Enlightenment, and amitie amoureuse. Only, can we keep the deodorants and the like, please?
Don’t forget morality, good character, and talent, instead of the “my life partner is whoever gives the goods” philosophy. Remember when being human, and not a walking pair of breasts, meant something?
When was that? We’ve always been walking pairs of breasts, walking uteri, and free housekeepers.
This.
I am a petite size 6/XS. I have some of my Grandmother’s beautifully made clothes (mostly coats, they are so much better quality then what you get today) that are size 9/10 on the label. They fit like a glove!
I am really tired of bigger women saying they are “real”. Somehow I am not? I’m “fake”? Being bigger is one thing (voluptuous, like Marilyn) but being fat, like many of my fellow Americans, is a whole different doughnut.
Hell yes with the “real” comment. It’s nice that larger people are trying to feel better about themselves – but putting down other women in the process is very uncool.
Putting down ANYONE, is uncool actually, but thanks for putting someone down (It’s nice that larger people are trying to feel better about themselves? WTF?) while saying how wrong it was to put someone down.
There is a difference between “petite” and “emaciated”. You’re right, people shouldn’t dump on you for being petite. But, it goes both ways. Too skinny is gross just like too fat is gross, IMO. I have my own definitions but I wouldn’t directly say to another woman “You are too skinny and it’s gross”. I hope my other comments don’t offend you, I just get fired up when I think about how the media portrays the “feminine ideal” and how objectified women are.. And don’t always think before I type when I am fired up.
*disclaimer: if a friend of mine lost a lot of weight and was super skinny, I would definitely raise a concern, but wouldn’t tell her she’s disgusting.
It’s okay to be curvy.
It’s okay to have some meat on your bones.
It’s okay to be a little over weight.
But if , as you cross the room, your footsteps make little ripples in glasses of water, a la Jurassic Park, you’ve gone too far.
Comment WIN!
I completely agree. That’s the best definition of improper weight that I’ve ever encountered! WIN!
I agree with rewards, actually.
People harp about how the media is obsessed with thinness, and sure – they are with celebrities.
It doesn’t stop the American public from getting fatter and fatter.
“Curves” are cute. Obese is not – and despite all the “media loves stick people” flack, obese americans have actually started to outnumber “just” overweight Americans.
I’m technically “overweight”
and I’m cute as hell.
Yes, you are.
Wow…..simply…..wow.
No.
No what? No, Marilyn Monroe is not sexy? How old are you?
Being smaller than her makes me feel pretty good about myself. Yep.
Well congratulations on your self-centered-ness. I hope your head isn’t too big to fit through the door in the morning.
Bet you’re as ugly as sin, though.
Win
She was so gorgeous
Well, a lot of artists liked to paint pictures of her… Hmm.
Well ladies, which would you prefer? Not feeling fat because you have hips; or the ability to get a decent job, keep a child you bore out of wedlock, participate in any university course you are smart enough to qualify for, serve in the armed forces if you wish, and having recourse from sexual harassment in the workplace or from authority figures.
Marilyn Monroe was a sex symbol, and that’s all she could have been thanks to the times she lived in.
If only everything you said were idolized in the media and portrayed as being sexy and beautiful I don’t think that women would feel “fat” because they are “curvy”.
to a man curves are sexy as is personality, not all men agree with the media, actualy most men dont agree.marlin monroe was beatiful.
and for adam no matter wat a women looks like theres always some extremely horny bastard going after them that dont take no for an answer
I can understand that. But it’s hard to believe when you see your boyfriend’s/spouse’s subscription to Maxim and other such magazines.. Women are more action oriented. They believe what they see and when that conflicts with what they hear they go with what they see.
“Honey I love you just the way you are”
*starts reading Maxim with some half naked chick on the cover who is decidedly skinnier and of a bigger breast size*
“Really, I don’t like the women in here, I get it for the articles”
*puts magazine in the pile with the rest of the half naked/naked girl magazines*
“Seriously, I don’t find these women attractive at all”
I’m not saying that all men are hypocrites or that all men are liars either. It’s just we see things like this and it makes us insecure. When the behaviour continues, we get more insecure. All this insecurity is compounded by the media, it seems everywhere we look women do not look like we average ladies do (by average I mean not Hollywood starlets). So, men, if you have a lady try to be courteous of her insecurities and don’t assume she will just get over it, or that you don’t play a part in how she feels about herself. You play a HUGE part, and we all want you to tell us how you see US, not how you don’t see other women.
Seeing is believing.
If you let a man – any man – dictate that much about how YOU feel about YOURSELF then I promise you, your weight or anyone else’s weight or the media are NOT the problems.
Additionally, it’s a little bit sexist to think that that scenario can’t work the opposite way around. That it can’t be a female oggling a picture of a sexy, buff male (I do it, I’m sure you do it, etc etc) and it doesn’t seem a little “off” in comparison with what you tell your (you as in general, not specific) significant other. “Oh, no, really honey, Brad Pitt’s body isn’t attractive at all!”
See I didn’t mean that we ONLY go by what our man shows us. However, if you are ignored by your man, don’t get sex and aren’t told that you are attractive.. Then it is damaging. It doesn’t matter how great you feel about yourself, if you aren’t treated as a desirable woman by your mate that can wreak havoc on your self esteem.. That’s the point I was trying to get at. Instead of hearing “I don’t find this attractive” we (men and women I suppose) would rather hear “You’re beautiful/sexy/attractive”. That’s all.
Imagine if your mate collected magazines and didn’t tell you you’re attractive to them? Even when you let them know how you feel? Would that not make you insecure? It would given enough time. (In my experience) men are pretty daft when it comes to paying attention to a woman’s wants and needs. I’m not saying all men are like this, just the ones I’ve been with.
Also, I can’t speak from the male perspective, because I am not a male. No one I have ever been with told me they felt insecure due to this that or the other thing. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but I can only speak to what I know. I never said that the situation doesn’t happen the opposite way around, you just interpreted it that way.
I can only speak from my life experiences and what the women in my life speak of. And from these experiences I have learned that a woman neglected by her mate loses self confidence.
It is silly to think that your mate does not have an impact on your own self image.
Oh, and please don’t get into the “If you’re in a relationship and you feel ignored there is something wrong and you should leave”. Every relationship has it’s problems and as long as both parties are willing to compromise, you can learn to not feel ignored just as your mate can learn to show you they find you attractive.
That is also from personal experience. I put my opinion on this page in the hopes that men who may not realise how they impact a woman’s life might think about it. Also, so a woman might think about talking to her man instead of keeping it inside and harboring anger over something that is not discussed.
How can anyone learn if there is no one to teach?
Women! Tell your man how you feel without accusing him!
Men! Listen to your lady and work on making her feel as sexy as you see her!
And the other way around too!
*its
Oh yeah, it sucked to live back then. But I’ve seen several people in this thread speak as though I’ve personally injured them just being fat, have become invisible in public life, have had aspersions cast upon my character for keeping my out-of-wedlock child because I am not independently wealthy, witnessed an important man at Harvard University state that women are no good at math, was treated like a bimbo in the Army, and if you think there is any real recourse from sexual harassment, you MUST be a guy.
I’m sure you noticed 90+ percent of the women in public life who are “taken seriously” are also stereotypically sexy. When they’re not, the public never lets them forget it unless they’re old enough to be someone’s grandma–and sometimes not even then.
Stone cold FOX!
Curves ARE sexy. Rolls are not.
Trouble is when you say that curves are still sexy, the women beyond the “curves” stage start thinking they fit into that group and believing they’re sexy too. Hell, maybe they are in some way… but larger body types just don’t do it for most people (media bias or not).
And while you don’t want people thinking that chopstick thin is in… you also don’t want people to start thinking obese is hot. Many people are just plain overweight and instead of trying to be cute about it, might be better off (health and happiness wise) just losing some of that mass.
I would be better off not having random snotnosed brats telling me I’m worthless because they are not sexually attracted to me. It’s like the whole world is supposed to revolve around the Johnson. “Oh, you don’t do it for me… Oh baby, you’re hot… Nah, not my type…” If I’m not interested in you, WHO CARES. I have no way of knowing, and you don’t know either, who all out there is interested in obese people. They’re afraid to say so. They know they’d be publicly shamed. Except the chubby-chasers–fat people are all they like and they’re obsessive about it and something is wrong with them.
I’m tired of my worth as a human being, being measured by whether some guy would do me. If you’re that hard up (har har) then go get a DVD and some vaseline and leave the rest of us alone.
If your weight is killing you, it really doesn’t matter if it’s sexy or not, it’s probably time for a change.
I agree.
Thank you. My sentiments exactly.
Noone has mentioned anything about your worth as a human being. It seems to me that you’re trying far to hard to justify your size. If you’re fine with your size, then that’s fine with me. But physical attraction (save for those who fall in the ‘wierd’, i.e. chubby chaser category) is largely instinctual. We choose mates based on traits that we would wish to pass on to our offspring. A fit body is something that we are programmed to want. There’s no escaping our history as a species.
She’s my ideal. Very few actresses these days are shaped like her. Ah well.
I look at some of the “attractive” models/actresses of today, and all I can think is, “Why would I want a woman that I can hug and tickle myself at the same time?” There are some I find attractive, though, despite their overly thin frames. But that’s mainly because I’ll go for a pretty face over a hot body any day (I’m a sucker for beautiful eyes).
Dude, imagine a bunch of men ripping each other to shreds over their body types.
And women ripping them to shreds too. Interesting that men pretend they don’t get on women’s cases about anything, preferring to let other women take most of the blame. Convenient, that.
Honestly its the media’s perception of appropriate weight that causes a lot of the trouble today. Even though you know that all the covergirls are photoshopped you still compare yourself to the magazine and always come out last.
When I was in my senior year of high school I got mono and lost like twenty pounds. All of a sudden everyone was going “oh you should model” even though I was a scary 6’0″ 120. So I tried to stay at that weight but ended up being too weak to control my horse , being sick all the time, and ended up having a breakdown and losing a full scholarship.
It’s taken four years and counseling to get myself back. I’m back up to weight and can work, ride, and go to school. In fact, I’m healthier now than I was before I got mono. I’ve done a little ammy modeling.
Still I hear my 4-Hers talk about dieting all the time. They don’t care if the covergirls have been ‘Shopped, they want to look just like them. After all, a picture’s worth a thousand words.
A-Men!
I can remember being in high school and thinking I was fat at 6ft1 and 170lbs. Nevermind the fact that I played softball, ran track, swam, and shot archery.
My younger sister gave in to the pressure her sophomore year of high school and had to be hospitalized for anorexia. She was 5ft10 and 105lbs. It was awful.
I have a daughter now. I never talk about weight. She’s 3. I never make “fat” or “thin” comments about people. We use words like “healthy” and “strong”. The responsibility for body image, health and eating habits begins at home. My father in law actually gets angry with my husband and I because we don’t take our kids to McDonalds. **eyeroll** They don’t need that crap. When my kids eat out, they go with my husband and I to real restaraunts that serve real food. There are no sodas or chips in my house. And while I think the media do play a part with their choices of women to showcase, I also believe that parents have the power to inform and empower their children to rise above the status quo.
You go, lady.
Lulz! Yes, this obsession with thin women is Brand Spanking New! Have y’all ever heard of the corset?? Bone-crushing garb that cinched proper ladies’ waists to 12-15″ in some eras. In Marilyn’s time period, role models like Lucille Ball and Judy Garland were highly pressured to maintain freaking tiny bodies, and housewives everywhere were encouraged to be thin. Marilyn had an “it” factor that overstepped all weight boundaries — she was big even for HER time period. Marilyn has stated that she was very disgusted by her weight gain and went to extreme diet measures to get thin again.
Ever since the corset was done away with, girls wear the corset from the inside out.
Maaaan the days of when curves were sexy came back for a time in the fifties, from back in, say, the 15th century… and then went FIZZLE again. Lord help us all.
Man, I used to be a size 6-8( 2-4 American) and now I’m a size 12 and an hourglass (size 8 american) and i’ve never been happier.
Super skinny is a bit gross. I guess the fashion world thought there was only so far they could take fashion, the latest edge was to make bones wear skin.
I think everyone on here arguing their point is ‘tarded. Hefty girls (and men): you aren’t going to get through to the thin people and convince them you’re gorgeous, and there is absolutely no reason for you to care about what someone who can’t see your beauty thinks anyways. Thin girls (and men): what do you feel you have to prove? Your body type is widely accepted by our society! Yay! You’re considered normal and desirable by all the same people who put drug addicted psychos who kill themselves with their addictions (actors, actresses, fashion moguls, etc.) on the highest pedestals. I’m sure you feel you can go die happily now. We were ALL created in God’s image. That means we are all exceptionally beautiful whether one pound or 1000 pounds, and if you disagree with that, then you must feel like you know better than God….how sad.
“Thin girls [...] Your body type is widely accepted by our society!”
just look at the comments on here; half of them are about how awful it is to be thin. I don’t know a single naturally skinny person who hasn’t had people whispering behind their backs about eating disorders, and saying how bad they look because they’re thin. As I said in a comment before, my friend had someone come up to her in a nightclab, grab her arm and tell her it was disgusting. Does that sound like acceptance to you?
That is very odd. I do wonder where all these people who receive negative comments for thinness must be living. When I was very thin, I was told that I should model and my bf (in not so many words) told me I had to stay a size 3 or he wouldn’t find me attractive. Needless to say, I didn’t follow his commands, and I am no longer with him. But as a thin person I got universal social acceptance that I didn’t get later on. Even when I was a size 6 or 8, certain friends would tell me that I was “fat” and needed to be a size 2.
haha when I was her size I got picked on in school! >_<
i believe that some women are naturally thin and that’s totally cool, but i’m pretty sure audrey hepburn suffered from depression-fueled anorexia.
actually she suffered severe starvation during world war II
“During the Dutch famine that followed, over the winter of 1944, the Germans confiscated the Dutch people’s limited food and fuel supply for themselves. People starved and froze to death in the streets. Hepburn and many others resorted to making flour out of tulip bulbs to bake cakes and biscuits.”
“Suffering from malnutrition, Hepburn developed acute anemia, respiratory problems, and oedema.”
Add to that her training as a dancer and you have far more complex eating habits, hardly simple anorexia.
You know she had a really high IQ and would be considered a genius in today’s terms.
its not americans dudes its the media. Do you see normal ppl going up to others saying you are not like what i seen on the tv?
mmm…curves….
Deine Mudda riecht nach Fisch und sie schubst kleine Kinder vom Dreirad und riecht am Sattel!
Remember when women were curvy and not one big curve or no curves at all? Remember happy mediums?
I suppose her skeleton could pass as a modern model.
I think the Lane Bryant models should be what we see as ideal. They’re very proportional, just slightly padded. They’re not unhealthy or obsessed with their weight. They’re confident and beautiful and honestly, they’re what I think real health is. People say it’s healthier to have a lower fat ratio and more muscle, but the more muscle you have as a women, the more your hormones go wacky. Women like those Lane Bryant models are I think what god had in mind as healthy.
Agreed. They are beautiful, and furthermore, they look happy! If I were a man, I think I’d prefer them to the super skinny chicks. Most standard sized models look unhappy, probably because they’ve been forced to take uppers to stay thin.
The sad thing is, while most men say they want a woman with curves, many will also say that cellulite is gross. It’s quite difficult to be curvy without having some fat/cellulite, and we women are practically taught to hate our bodies and that fat is the enemy, and knowing that [some] men think “cellulite is gross” doesn’t help our neuroses at all… I’m just saying…
agreed. curves are very sexy (have some of my own, thanks much), but i don’t think people understand that not all curvy women are in girdles/designer clothing and most of us definitely aren’t airbrushed like curvy girls in magazines. those curves come with a price: usually cellulite, stretch marks, or something else *fun* like that. it just comes with the territory. i wish we could all just learn to love our bodies no matter how they look or work: as long as we are healthy we should be happy. that goes for naturally thin girls, too, of course
Hmm… self-love? A wonderful concept, but I fear it will be a long time (if ever) before the mass population jumps on that band-wagon. I agree that we should all love who we are, and that healthy=happy.
Huzzah for my tiger stripes! >:3
Cellulite is highly genetic as well. Paris Hilton has it. It’s not all larger women.
I know they’re not the size of their target audience. I am their target audience and I’m in their 18/20 range right now. I just think that the models themselves are about where I would like to be. I don’t want to go smaller. I attract a lot of men, even some who never liked a fat girl before, because I’m confident. I think I’m beautiful and people will believe about you what you believe about yourself. That’s a fact. Those jerks talking about fatties are so sad. They are just wearing shallow on their sleeve. Quietly not preferring a fattie is perfectly understandable. Just like not finding blondes attractive, it’s a preference. But we all know those douchebags who have to be vocal about hating fatties are just doing it because they are insecure, so really you have no choice but to pity them.
Geez!!! Everyone calm down!! Why can’t we all be beautiful for beauty sakes? How about people being decent for their neighbor’s sake? How about if we look at how the person is (on the inside) instead of how they look? It’s fine if you’re that shallow and dimwitted to think that you have to either support/oppose fat/thin people. People are what they are and regardless of if someone is “fat” or “thin” it’s their lifestyle and habits that they have to deal with in the end.
And just for the record, being a Health and PE teacher, I have to deal with the whole body image thing, teaching it as well as hearing what my students have to say. Through all the arguments, the only one that stands true and is actually factual is the one about being healthy. As long as one is healthy it shouldn’t matter what you look like. Your doctor should be the one telling you whether you are over/underweight and the ramifications that come with being so to your health. No, the media is not qualified to give you that information, but you, your own person, is not qualified either because you’ll give any excuse to justify whatever size you are and how it factors in on your health. Especially if you don’t want to change what you’re doing or you fit in.
As for the comment about running not being a healthy way to exercise….that’s a load of crap!!! Running is a great way to exercise, but it may not be for all people. If you are overweight (according to your body frame) then you may not want to run, but walk instead or do some non-impact activities where you are still burning calories and building muscle. If you are not a runner, then that’s fine, but don’t count it out as useless when there are plenty of runners out there who are reaping the benefits from this particular exercise.
Ooops, made a grammatical error….sorry!
I also forgot to say that I’ve always thought that Marylin Monroe was pretty but felt sorry for her because, as an actress, she had to fight the stereotype that hollywood had given her and how the public viewed her as well. We’re just as bad about that………..the blame cannot always be placed on the media. They just put it out there. It’s up to the public if it will accept it or not. If it’s accepted, then they’ll continue.
WELL SAID.
and yet half the men who say that curvy women are sexy would never tap that. it gives me a giant sad!
Looks like someone should call the WAAAAAMBULANCE!
Stop looking for excuses to be fat, lazy and unhealthy.
looks like someone should stop generalizing about a whole group of people he doesn’t know.
I don’t understand why anyone who is fat would be blaming it on anyone other than themselves. Really. Shut up, you’re making the rest of us look bad.
Marilyn was gorgeous, no doubt about it. I’m pretty sure that whoever made this LOL wasn’t thinking of fatties like me when they were talking about curves.
I can’t help but wonder what she would think if she were here today to see the nonsense that Hollywood has become. Knowing a little bit about she herself went through, and seeing how overzealous folks in Hollywood have become in regards to “image,” I wonder what she’d say. Would she still be revered as one of the most beautiful women ever or would they look at her pictures and tell her she was too fat?
Marilyn’s sexy was never about her size. Sex appeal is all about the charisma you guys.
Within reasonable limits (i.e. not being or really underweight truly obese), confidence and charm = instant sexiness.
Sad. There will never be another Marilyn. A rare beauty , and she was actually talented. Loved her in “Some Like It Hot”. Well, that movie is hilarious all around.
Yes, people DID tell her to lose weight. Please, stop the myth. She abused prescription diet pills and barbiturates (which, among other things, cause weight loss due to loss of appetite). These drugs ultimately led to her death.
The studios told her to lose weight. She was the size she was, in part, due to dieting and pills. They told Judy Garland to lose weight too. Go look up how many actresses of the era were on diet pills by PRESCRIPTION and were abusing them to meet the standard of beauty of the time.
http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/participant.jsp?participantId=134087
http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp
Please let the myth go.
She did what celebrities do today. The only difference is that today, they have a better understanding of how to get skinnier and are willing to go to even more extremes. Maybe the standard changed a little too.
And as far as the “good old days” before Marilyn, one word: Twiggy.
Er … actually, Twiggy got her first modeling contract at age 16 in 1966, four years after Marilyn Monroe died.
Ack, thanks. For some reason, I always associate her with flapper of the 20s. Flappers, I mean flappers.
Everyone always laments about how “if she were alive today, everyone would think she was fat”. Aaaaactually, they WOULDN’T. There are lots of actresses out there with her build, and guess what? We (most of us anyway) think they’re beautiful. Kate Winslet comes to mind, just as an example. Would Marilyn make it as a runway model? Of course not. Would Halle Berry do any better? Nope, she’d not cut out for high fashion but certainly no one is calling her unattractive.
We all just need to caaaaalm down.
Oh, and while we’re at it, let’s distinguish between “curves” and “pudgy”. Someone here stated they were a size 10 and that they loved their curves. That is awesome, but I am afraid that Marilyn was no size 10. A size 10 may have “curves”, yes, but they also most definetely have fat covering those curves. Fit and healthy is what’s attractive. A body that is a size 8+ is not automatically “curvy” or attractive, I’m afraid.
What about girls like me, who are 5’9″? I wear a size 8 and I have low body fat. Weight sits differently on people of different heights and skeletal structures.
But curves are fat. They’re just nicely formed and distributed fat. And there’s no such thing as a standard “size 10″ since every clothing company’s sizes are different, so a size 10 at Target might be a 4 at Banana Republic. There’s nothing wrong with a person being a 10. Weight is such an individual thing because everyone has different builds. Very tall people might be perfectly healthy at 10. So might a medium sized person with a medium frame.
Wow No way! My sister-in-law is 5’10′ and wore a size 9/10 back when I met her. She was SKINNY! Did you forget that a 5” tall person and a 5’10 person would wear very different sizes and both be thin?
And yes, Marilyn was told by the Hollywood machine that she needed to lose weight. However, the difference is is that WE the public don’t agree with that. The Hollywood machine and the public are two very different things. The Powers That Be are not satisfied with anyone that isn’t as slender as a twig. This is evident in films from the mid 1920s and onward.
EPIC WIN.
Quinn,
Yes, Audrey Hepburn was beautiful, but not everyone can be her. That’s not a realistic size that all American women can achieve. When I was at what society would call my “fittest,” I weighed 100-105 pounds and could not get my waist measurement to go below 27.
This is not curvy, this is fat. Curvy has a waistline – she has no waistline, she has belly fat. Fat is not sexy. Jelly belly is not sexy. Cellulite is not sexy. I’m tired of fat people trying to convince the rest of the world that they look good. Put the damn fork down and go get a life.
Funny, I see a waist – it’s right above those sweet hips!
Just ’cause it’s not a 20″ corseted wasp-waist is no reason to say “she has no waistline.”
i would even venture to say that the women without body fat are the ones without waistlines, because they don’t have anything that curves inward, just flat muscle. not everyone’s body looks the same, and sometimes cellulite and a poochy stomach is inevitable. that doesn’t mean that the women with the poochy stomachs don’t have their fair share of admirers. “sexy” is relative.
Thin people have cellulite as well. It is based largely on genetics.
What is the definition of jelly belly? A belly that isn’t toned or a chubby belly?
Epic Win, Fail for Anorexia/Bulimia
AMEN
I’d “brake” for those curves!
I’d “shake” for those swerves!
Seriously. I am a healthy size 6-8. And the looks i get are appalling. I am not fat. I am healthy. I exercise. I am a vegetarian. I don’t feel the need to be a size 00. Girls. Take back sexy. We are sexy no matter what size no matter what color. We are sexy because we are confident and proud
get it girl! you are so right. as long as you’re taking care of yourself, who cares what you look like? that confidence is sexy.
She was definitely sexy. JFK that lucky dog.. Dimaggio that lucky dog.. who else? http://www.youcanquotethis.com
She has humongous thighs.
they look pretty normal for her body shape to me.
She was known for having killer legs. The cropping of that picture does her no justice, but she was 5’5 1/2 and 117 lbs.
That’s thin.
She had legs for days.
What angers me is overweight people using her as an example of a “big girl” when she was not. She was very much the “unattainable ideal” in her day, as well. Her natural waist was 22 inches . . . probably thinner than Scarlett Johansson.
Only in a corset, it was probably more around 24-26.
Between 1947 and 1953, she posed in enough pinup shots to be named “Miss Cheese Cake” . . . many in a bikini.
Her natural waist was TINY.
If you’re still skeptical, just watch ‘Gentlemen Prefer Blondes’. She was actually criticized for NOT wearing a corset, because it was considered “scandalous” to flaunt her natural figure.
Her weight fluctuation began with ‘Some Like it Hot’ (toward the end of her career) because she so much wanted out of the film, that she tried to fatten herself up so that she would be replaced, but the studio refused to let her out of her contract because she still owed 20th 3 more films. She then became pregnant and miscarried, then again during the filming of ‘Lets Make Love’. By the time ‘Something’s Got to Give’ came along, she was back to the best shape of her life. The coroner’s report weighs her in at 117 lbs and 5’5 1/2.
During the 3 years that she was struggling with her weight, she was ridiculed in the press, so this pie-eyed view that women were held to different standards is untrue. Hollywood then was as bad, or worse (because of the oppressive studio system) than Hollywood, today. You had to be thin and you had to stay thin. If you got pregnant, that wasn’t an excuse.
24 to 26 isn’t a big waist. I never said her waist was large. However the only measurements we have were those given by her dressmaker and the studio. The dressmaker measure the woman in a corset and the studio was well known for fudging measurements to make people look better on paper. I’m just saying she was probaly a little bigger then most people want to admit. (but not large by any means)
meh typos, sorry sudafed has got my head all foggy.
What a beautiful lady…
My biological mother named me Norma Jean when she saw the film “The Prince & The Showgirl”. My adoptive parents changed it but I’m still flattered by the fact that I was named after her.
RIP, sweet lady..
Yeah… she was definitely hot.
My mom liked Marilyn Monroe. It’s funny… I’m a lot skinnier than Marilyn Monroe was and yet my mom calls me fat because I have some cellulite.
Honestly, some of the comments I’ve read here have really made my day.
No, I’m not being sarcastic. Honest.
I’ve always been told that I was “underweight” for my size (I’m about 5’2″ and 109 lbs.), but I was always worried about the belly fat that I had (and still have), and that my legs weren’t twigs. I don’t know what took over my mind, but I became quite scared about it. It still lingers in the back of my mind, but I’ve become much more self-confident. Now that I realize that it’s NORMAL not to be a stick figure like you see in Victoria’s Secret ads and whatnot, I’ve felt a lot better (don’t forget about genetics for most people). ALSO, it’s nice to know that not all guys “love” skinny women. Basically, just be yourself, and don’t give in to what people want you to be (as in look “better” in their eyes, so to speak), but just who you are happy being.
Well, I sorta kinda went off on a semi-not really rant there. My appologizes.
One last thing . . . the above picture was taken by Sam Shaw either when Marilyn was pregnant or just after she miscarried. She’s a little fuller, there, but again, people seem to want to remember her has bigger than she was. She was a teeny tiny little thing.
Very well said! You sound like a truly confident person. Awesome.
I think body image starts at home, I truly do! I want to be a good role model for my daughters and teach them to love themselves. My mother was overweight when I was younger and was not happy. This rubbed off onto my sister and I and we have had body image issues our whole lives.
When I was younger I weighted 105 lbs. at 5”4′ I really thought I was a cow. I wouldn’t leave the house in anything but jeans, t-shirt, and my hooded sweater. This is not what I want for my children.
Seriously…if we all make the effort to teach our children (future children for some) to love themselves and to be healthy we really could tackle this whole issue and diminish it.
Thank you for your diatribe. While I agree with some of your points, the end gets a little pitiful. If you really do think that people should find you beautiful and you find yourself beautiful, then forget about the things that someone said to you and the hurt you very obviously can’t get over.
I guess I forgot to point out that I don’t care if people find me beautiful. No matter how attractive I am or not, there will be some people I do not appeal to. That’s the whole point of the last part because there are people out there that will find a person attractive but will not even try to date them for fear of how society will look at them.
I am over the hurt those words and looks have caused. However, the damage still lingers and spills over into things that have nothing to do with being overweight. It takes a long time to work on the psychological damage years of abuse causes. Do you expect a child to just get over years of sexual abuse? And before you get your panties in a twist, I’m not comparing being overweight to being molested…I simply want to state that damage a child suffers does not magically go away with adulthood.
I am amazed with it. It is a good thing for my research. Thanks
Personally… I think people who KNOW they are overweight to an extent that is unhealthy, should do something about it, and not feel the need to defend “curvy women”, and burst with happiness everytime someone says women should have “fuller figures”. They should, try and do something about it. I’m not saying its easy, I KNOW its not easy, but they should make an effort to eat healthily and exercise more. (btw, eating healthily means normal sized portions of healthy food which have totally changed, no thanks to plates getting bigger etc.)
And when it comes to people underweight to an extent that it affects their health, they should try gain weight healthily or go see a dietician if they find it difficult. They should stop saying that they are naturally skinny. If they are naturally skinny, it wouldn’t be unhealthy, unless they were born with a health problem, but that’s a different issue altogether.
The naturally skinny and naturally curvy, are not unhealthy or ugly at all, and anyone will agree. Obviously some men have preferences. And the reason most models will be skinny is because, its true, clothes falls better on people who are all angles. If you are naturally skinny or curvy, then you are on the normal section on a BMI graph, which means you’re healthy, and you’re fine. People complain, but the normal section doesn’t “make the world a boring place” because its very large and allows all natural, healthy body types.
So if you’re too fat, or too skinny. DO something about it, even if it’s difficult, it’s for your benefit and wellbeing. A healthy figure has lots of variations, but neither have to be extreme.
I do agree however, that the media puts alot of pressure on girls to be thin. But now, since people are talking about eating disorders, it’s also talking about how curvy figures should be encouraged, and fat people see this as an excuse, which it ISN’T.
Peace (Y)
LOL!!
health is sexy.
openness is even sexier.
so, be open to health, and you’ll be plenty satisfied.
marilyn monroe is the most beautiful girl i’ve ever seen in my life.
As long as they’re healthy and at least semi-intelligent, women with all types of shapes-thin and curvy- are sexy and beautiful.
Your measurements are way off. Those are the measurements given by the studio. The studios were well known for fudging those measurements. a 34A would actually be a 33-32 bust. She was a classic spoon shape. All you need to do it look at the pictures and you’ll see it. I understand your point but you have bad information.
I see all the weight related comments this picture has caused and I’d just like to say that this picture caption has nothing to do with WEIGHT and people who are making it into an issue don’t need to. I just copied this off AOL’s headlines:
“There’s a New
‘Perfect’ Body
Hourglass Figures Are Out, ‘Rectangle’
Shape Is In: How Do You Measure Up?”
So curves are no longer considered the in-thing. This picture is just conveying question “remember when this body style was considered beautiful.” That’s it. It doesn’t matter if you’re big, small, tall, short or any other shape. Every person is unique, both in their body style and in their preferences of body style. It just happens that right now the mainstream look is going back to the rectangular shape. History repeats it’s self, in good time curves will come back. If not in our culture, in another. It’s not worth getting upset about or arguing about with anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Beauty is seen differently around the world. No matter if you’re curvy or rectangular or square or a triangle somewhere you are the ideal attraction to someone.
Norma Jean was a beautiful curvy woman! Yes indeed! But there are beautiful women of every shape, size and color. Variety is the spice of life! If you disagree, go become a communist.
Remember when exercise was considered frivolous?
just as an aside, most of my thin friends UK size 10 and under are single and looking for love and all my larger friends Uk size 14 and up are all happily married or loved up. Not saying anything just pointing that fact out, all of my larger friends are constantly trying diets though! Maybe being loved up makes us bigger!
I am not sure on US sizes I think you guys are 2 smaller than us so a 14 in the Uk would be a 10 over in the states. I am 5 foot 10 and a UK 14-16 so a US 10-12, have the ‘curvy’ bits, trying to reduce them a little but not to silly skinny levels as i am not naturally thin and i don’t want to force my body to do stuff it doesn’t want to do to the detriment of my health. Want to be a UK12 which in hollywood and modelling standards would probably still make me obese but by medical standards i would have a perfect BMI of 22 – 22.5.
Marilyn had a fab figure. As long as you are healthy think it doesn’t really matter but if you overeat on junk and carry extra weight then its a good idea for a rethink but i know how hard it can be my weight has yo yo-ed for over ten years.
Just don’t use the word curvy to describe someone who is essentially fat, or a thin girl who has used a wonderbra. The press use the word for everyone from a UK 6 to 24+! So everyone is curvy. Doh!
THEY STILL AREEEEEE
*drools*
Funny how it’s acceptable to put down thin girls, but it’s such a big deal when a bigger girl is put down. Hypocrisy if I say so myself.
I think she looks gorgeous..but by today’s standards would be considered plus sized. When did the bony, anorexic, skeletal look come in to fashion..and it’s really in fashion with all of hollywood and judgemental women. Most men like curves in a woman..which is why big boobs and a rounded tush is always the ideal for the average joe. Ladies don’t hold yourself up to Cosmo’s or Hollywoods idea of how a woman should look. Skinny women look older faster and a bony middle aged woman is just pure nastiness. You only look good if you’re 10 years old and flat as a board.
I can’t believe how big ur mouth is!
I is amazing what people think they know based solely on rumors…
For a few years I had the same measurements as those listed, I was a size 6-8 in today’s sizes, in a corset my waist was a 22.
I have seen and handled, in person, several of Marylin’s dresses from different points in her career, most were too SMALL for a standard mannequin (size 4-6) at the waist, though hips and bust fit perfectly, the largest would barely fasten, which was a dress from Some Like it Hot.
Justifying your own fat by saying Marylin was fat is every bit as based on a lie as thinking modern images are not ALL photoshopped.
Furthermore, constantly blaming the media is ridiculous, girls do not get the idea that they are fat from magazines, they get it from other people, family, friends, strangers, calling them pudgy, chubby, or any other number of names. If you want the media to change, don’t give them money. But please stop claiming a size 18 is healthy, unless you are 8 feet tall, it IS NOT. I am 5 feet tall, at 125-130 I was healthy, at 180 I am NOT. The best thing I can do for myself is face the fat, eat some veggies and get the hell off the couch!
Uh you are wrong about your “healthy weights”. You need to look at the figures for yourself. 180 at 6 foot and above is considered healthy. You dear tiny person are considered borderline overweight according to the BMI chart. STFU and keep your bad science to yourself. No one here is calling Monroe fat.
Thank you.
Stop looking at dress sizes and start looking at the tape measure. She was TINY.
Remember when captions were funny? Didn’t think you did.
Obesity is rising globally because things that are good for you cost far more than the synthetically raised, overproduced garbage that most of the population can afford.
Take 30 dollars and get lean meat, vegetables, and grains. You may get one meal. (for 2-6 people, depending on how well you shop)
Take the same amount and hit the hamburger helper, ramen, and frozen pizza. With a good shopper, this will feed a family (of two) for an entire week.
(and) in response to a comment that was waaaaaay, waaaaaaay, waaaaaaaay above me, I’d love to live in a society where I didn’t feel obligated to get a degree because raising children and keeping house was an acceptable profession. I think the only reason I’m getting my degree is because it’s socially unacceptable and economically unfeasable to be a housewife. I chose medicine because at least I’ll still get to take care of somebody. I’d rather have 6 kids and live out in the country somewhere.
There’s got to be some feminist middle ground somewhere where I can love being a wife and mother without being the downfall of modern society.
Me too. Personally, as a man, I am more than happy that Lynn loves being a house mom. I come home to a clean place and she gets to be with our boys. She’s happy, I’m happy. If anything she definitely works more in a day than I do, which is a failing on my part as much as an observation but she makes sure that I do my part so it balances out.
I always thought feminism is about choice but a lot of what I have seen is it being about being “their choice” which seems to just be a role reversal instead of an actual choice. If little Suzy doesn’t want to be a CEO, why make her be one? It will just make her miserable and make her employees’ lives hell to boot. Same goes if she doesn’t want to be a homemaker, don’t make her be one. It will just make her possible spouse and kids miserable.
Feminism should be about choice not having your life chosen but just another faction.
Perfectly beautiful human specimen. That’s why everyone knows her name. Beauty standards are sadly perverted now, by the anorexics and perverts that control the fashion industry. STFU.
What this means is that curves are still sexy but people have put images in people’s head that it’s a bad thing. People think they have to be super skinny to be sexy. I’m not saying that if you’re 500 pounds that it’s ok because it’s not (you can still be beautiful but not healthy) but it’s not ok to be 85 pounds. Does anyone get what I’m saying?
i love marylin shes beutiful, and that kind of person proves that big people can be pretty to, not just the anorexics and botox addicts that slam people who dont look dead and starved. and curves are still sexy !!!!
my bf loves her….
as an underweight flat chested UKsize 6 im extremely jealous but hide it well:P
and also feel sick when stick insects are called hot.being one,i know its not the case
Marilyn weighed, at most, in her life, 135 pounds. I’m 28 and weigh 105 and we’re the same height. I wear a size 0, so with 30 pounds on me, I would say she was around a size 6. And yes, my mom happens to know an actress that she starred in films with and my mom had asked her actress friend, so I know my information is correct. Anyway, it doesn’t matter! Miss Monroe, regardless of size, was the perfect female “specimen” ever put on this planet!
Do you have, by any chance, pictures of Marylin Monroe with her tummy uncovered? Thanks in advance for your answer
she’s so pretty!
really its not ur weight that determins if ur fat . its the % of fat in your body. a person can be 18 and weigh 300 lbs. and be a body builder. i am 15 and i weigh 135 and is 5’3″. but my stomach is flat. im actually big-boned. and im not just saying that cuz thats a usaul saying. allmost all of my family came from Germany and (not being stereotypical) most German women are strong built people.
If it jiggles, it’s fat.
I doubt that, you weigh 135 and you’re 5’3 only?
and your stomach is flat… yeah right.
Size 14 and frickin fabulous.
Man, the arguements on here. Can we not just agree that the woman was attractive, whatever her real measurements and weight were at that point and time. In this picture she certainly looks heavier than the average celeb woman now, but also, healthy and incredibly beautiful. I wish that more celeb woman looked like she does in that picture, so the push from the media about being teeny wasn’t so hard. And I’m not saying that thin woman aren’t attractive, everyone is attracted to something different and all people are attractive in their own way. It’s not healthy to be on either side of the extremes (anorexic or obese), but no one inbetween should be ridculed for being too curvy or too thin.
Yes, Marilyn was probably the sexiest woman ever…and yes, she did have issues with depression and her weight. During the filming of ‘Some Like It Hot’ she was very depressed and is quoted as saying, “I’ll get so fat they won’t let me do this movie.” Curvy women will always be sexy to men. I think the anorexic stick woman craze is something woman do to compete with each other.
She died because she was out of shape and on drugs. This image is just one were she wasn’t too fat yet. She died before hitting 250. Fit is hot, because we know what self abuse does. If your a fatty, then don’t expect to have people look at you with desire in their eyes. Lazy isn’t hot. Getting fat is easy. Just be lazy and eat lots.
Ew?
Um Marilyn looks pretty big here.
Not all thin people starve themselves.
I think that the skinny models these days ARE better looking.. they did it for a reason, clothes do look better on skinny girls rather than curvy or fattys i dont see ANY curves on marilyn’s body so idk what you people are talking about.
i think its funny howeveryone gets all offended about calling someone fat but deems it totally acceptable to rag on someone for being skinny. everyone is built differently, some girls are naturally slender and there is nothing wrong or ugly about that. it tends to be the fat women that say it, and also that fat women that say men prefer curves..slim girls have curves to. you fatties aren’t curvy you are shapeless blobs. a uk 10/12 is a nice curvy size. anything above that you lose your shape and have a few rolls where your waist used to be. marilyn was a 10
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The VOW (sorry, didn’t feel like typing it out) is not obese. She’s looking at her feet. That’s what women look like when they are looking at their feet. Fat belly and all that jazz. Well that’s the theory anyway and it’s a pretty good one.