People sometimes forget that the autrocities towards the minorities- it wasnt just the jews- in germany didnt happen overnight, but were a progressive thing. Not following orders, being a rebel, that got you shot from day one.

And no, religions are not just “ideas,” but honestly I don’t expect that kind of comprehension from someone with such 2-D thought. Ironically, it’s usually the people who preach against intolerance who hate the hardest.

Religion my ass

as a German I can say

*slaps*

Had they succeeded they’d have saved a hell of a lot more lives than they might have done by throwing away their lives protesting.

As for not closing the death camps or end the war, care to share some evidence for that?

See the link. I guess they’re lying huh?

Of course many other people tried to stop Hitler, but so what? Doesn’t change the fact Stauffenberg lost his life trying to kill him. You may not consider that heroic, but I, and millions of others, do.

The IAF has better technology, so the random bombing of WW2 simply isn’t justifiable anymore. Yet they still bomb civilian areas after giving Hamas plenty of time to clear out. That was clearly collective punishments, and they’re totally illegal under the Geneva Convention.

Hopefully the ICC probe will give clear proof of IDF war crimes, God knows, there’s enough evidence.

How about Associated Press?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ioi_0jtO9RjMwPNRoXNCndRPRq3gD96601GG0

Maybe Haaretz lies about it too?
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1059457.html

You’re right, you can’t fight facts. Shame the Israeli propaganda machine tries to.

Also, take a reading lesson – the IDF called civilian residents in the houses and beause Hammas was also using these house, they knew too. This I will claim happily – Hammas murder civilians on both sides of the war. They’re a political party, remmember, they’re supposed to look after their civilians.

The whole point of the 20th July plot was to change the government and end the war. Your claim they could have easily staged a successful coup is utterly inane, the plot to assassinate Hitler was the first move in that coup. It failed, so clearly the coup wasn’t as easy as you seem to think. Killing Hitler had to be the first step in the coup as all soldiers had sworn an oath of personal loyalty to him. While he lived a coup would have been pretty much impossible. Why do you think Stauffenberg was willing to risk his life to kill Hitler? Had he succeeded the coup may well have been successful.

I’m familiar with Coward, by the way, he was a soldier, not an airman. If I recall correctly he was part of the British Expeditionary Force and was captured during the retreat to Dunkirk. I certainly won’t belittle his achievements, he was a truly great man and deserves the recognition Yad Vashem gives him. However, he saved a few hundred lives. Had Stauffenberg and his co-conspirators succeeded they could have saved hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives. The SS were slaughtering Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau up until its liberation in January 1945. Had the 20th of July plot succeeded that would have been 6 months less of genocide. Then there’s all the people, civilian and soldier alike, who died in the months following the plot leading to the end of the war. If the plot had succeeded they may all have lived. All those deaths happened not because Stuaffenberg and co didn’t give a crap, they happened because they failed in their coup, and they died because of it.

2) Oh, so it’s all Ok because people wanted to be where their ancestors came from. Ok, I’m tall, blue eyed, fair haired and most of my family come from the east side of Britain. Based on that, it’s clear I have a significant amount of Scandinavian ancestry, does that mean I’m entitled to go over to Denmark and boot some Danish guy off his land and take it for myself? Or is it just Israelis who are allowed to do that to Palestinians, doesn’t it apply in other cases?

4) No-one’s denying Hamas are a bunch of evil bastards who the world would be better off without. That doesn’t justify Israel’s discrimination. And yeah, it’s bound to be Arabs voting for Jewish candidates, that’s far more likely than it being discrimination ensuring the Arabs can’t be a significant political power in Israel. After all, why would a self-described Jewish state have a problem with having a major political block being Arabs?

How sweet, you make an inane statement claiming there’s a load of Sikhs in Israel and try to get out of it by claiming I’m the one who made myself look stupid. I’m not the idiot who can’t tell the difference between SIkjs and Druze.

As for them being Muslims, they may consider themselves Muslims, but most of the billion plus Muslims in the world don’t share that view. It’s similar to the Nation of Islam situation, they think they’re Muslims, but Muslims don’t think they are.

I love how you attempt to throw insults and then make yourself look stupid. My statement was “Israel has many Muslim, Christian, and Sikh citizens” not a “large Sikh population” (notice how they are combined?). And true, it is Druze…which makes them siding with the Israelis even WORSE. The Druze are Arab Muslims! When people who share the same ethnic and religious beliefs (though of a different sect) threaten your life due to a difference in how you interpret Muhhamad’s teachings there is a problem…

to the july 20th plot: it was not the first time that hight ranking members of the wehrmacht tried to kill hitler and his cronies. the first unsuccessful attemt has been made in spring 1938 at the zenith of the “sudetenkrise” – it failed simply because of hitlers “peacefull” success and the boneless neville chamberlain who visited hitler in munich – you can not disempower a man who “just won a war without firing a single shot” – sad but true. hitler, who smelled the rat, replaced the head of the wehrmacht with loyal generals, to prevent on going disloyality.

several attempts were made to kill or disempower hitler.
the highlights were:
summer 1939: gerhard graf von schwerin tried to convince the british government to ally themselves with russia.
june 1942: adam von trott zu solz delivered a massage to foreign minister eden in london. he asked for support to get rid of hitler. eden denied the bidding of traitors.
summer 1942: the group around stauffenberg was formed. at this point, the war could have been won (by their judgement). some conspirators were witnesses of war crimes (mostly by accident) done by the ss and wehrmacht – like axel von der bussche who wanted to kill hitler in a suicide attack. others just wanted to stop the madness of hitler, the war and the killing of jews.
march 21st 1943: rudolph-christoph freiherr von gersdorff tried to kill hitler by suicide bombing during an exhibition. hitler left too soon.
ferbruary 1944: ewald-heinrich von kleist, like von gersdorff, wanted to kill hitler in a suicide attack.
july 7th 1944: cavalry captain von breitenbuch wanted to kill hitler with a pistol during a conference. quite unusually he was not allowed to enter the room.

those conspirators may did not have a clean slate but at least they tried to do something. leaving the country or joining the allies was out of question for them because of their aristocratic background. leaving the wehrmacht whould have been counterproductive – why loose any chance to get close to hitler?

to the movie: just another superficial hollywood blockbuster. just with a historical background. tom cruise gives us his standard mission impossible face and flops again. the documentary movie “die stunde der offiziere” from 2004 is far better researched and gives a deeper insight.

From what you’re claiming, it seems you’re saying the IDF gave Hamas enough time to clear out of the area, leaving only civilians (who were known to be there), and then proceeded to bomb the crap out of the area anyway. You REALLY want to claim that?

2) Nope, wrong. You see, the settlements that are ‘legal’ under Israeli law are illegal under international law. The Geneva Convention bans moving your population into occupied territory. I take it you didn’t read the recent reports in Haaretz and the JP, very interesting leaks giving evidence of government complicity in settlements illegal under even Israeli law.

3) Fair point, I’ll concede I was wrong on that one. Brain fart, I was thinking of not being eligible for national service and all the benefits that go with completing it.

4) Why shouldn’t they? Why should people who are second class citizens in their own country not speak out against it? Maybe if they were treated as equals they’d be less opposed to it. For instance, shouldn’t 1/4 of the population have more than 1/12th of the representation? Doesn’t that just stink of discrimination?

No, I meant Sikhs. It was a response to the idiot who claimed Israel had a large Sikh population. But, yes, I assume HE meant Druze.