GANDALF SAYS
you shall not pass judgement
(Ian McKellen)
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Everybodys gay for Gandalf.
Or atleast they would be if they’d seen him reading the instructions of how to change a flat tire.
Starts about 1:58
Oh, my heavens. The joys of RSC training.
I’m gay for that.
o bby :B
No one should be allowed to be that epic. Seriously, the epicness hurts to behold.
Hell, I’m a woman, and even I’m gay for Gandalf…
wait, that made no sense
I love the video, thanks for linking it! i got it bookmarked.
that was epic.
christopher walken,eat your heart out.
That… was totally awesome! Love the guy! The only other person that could make the instructions for changing a flat tire this awesome are Christopher Lee and Patrick Stewart.
And Alan Rickman!
WHAT ABOUT BRIAN BLESSED
That video cracked me up! Thanks!
Sir Ian is awesome!
Is it sad that I no longer recognise Ian McKellen when he’s not wearing a pointy hat?
nah, I don’t either. he’s iconic.
santa is gay???
…little boys on his lap look weird now.
Dear god I’m tired of telling people this.
Homosexual ≠ Pedophile
What?? But my preacher told me…
What you’ve never seen that 1950′s Homosexual PSA (no seriously look it up on Youtube it’s scary)
I’m just going to tell myself that this is a stupid parody, mocking the judgmental sort of people. If I don’t try and believe that, I may have to break down in tears. Really makes you lose hope for the future of lifekind.
I love the overall message: “Be afraid of EVERYONE! They just may be gay!”
Sometimes I wonder how the US got to be such a paranoid nation lol
There’s this belief that we’re a “Christian” nation (guess they forgot the Freedom of Religion bit in the Constitution), so therefore we’re paranoid.
Where can I get a shirt like that?
But that video was from almost 50 years ago! I think it’s better to focus on how much we’ve changed since then and how much brighter the future will be.
(Look at me being an optimist. Doesn’t happen often!)
How much brighter the future will be with Obama as president? Good luck, America. Good luck
Wow! Teh Gay is contagious, like smallpox! Wonder if they tried to develop a vaccine for it? (I’m a lesbian, by the way, and Sir Ian is my hero!)
Close. You should have captioned it like so:
YOU SHALL NOT PASS
judgment
THIS. YES. Here, have an internetz; you haz won it.
Now I have the horrifying image of Ian Mckellen packing fudge, eww.
You did know he’s been gay all his life, and openly so for over a decade…
I feel the same way about imagining Sir Lawrence Olivier eating oyster. As the T-shirt says, get over it.
LOL. As funny as that is, I can’t help but wonder why you specifically chose Lawrence Olivier. Does he have a predilection for oysters I was previously unaware of? ^__^
No idea why I chose him for the parallel, maybe because he’s British and has been knighted just like Sir Ian.
Having just looked up his Wikipedia page, it looks like a few biographers claim that Sir Lawrence actually wasn’t all that impartial towards packing fudge (as in, he was bisexual). I don’t give much credit towards such claims, especially if the people making them are interested in selling books about it, but go figure…
YES! Pick a pointless fight, lesbitard!
It’s not picking a pointless fight. It’s pointing out a stupid comment.
*shoulderpat* It’s okay, I understood your (completely valid) point. And I LOL’d.
seconed
awww! I love you Gandalf! He’s a character lol!
Ian McKellen is so full of win.
Most spectacular of shirts. I must say, he looks more and more like Dumbledore every day. I still think it’s a shame he declined the role. He would hold the Trifecta. ^(^__^)^
im sorry but that looks nothing like either of the gandalfs
beard or no beard
hat or no hat
It references Gandalf because that is his most famous role, and because “You shall not pass” wouldn’t exactly work if they called Sir Ian Magneto or Teabing. Gandalf is the role of the lifetime of course.
I love Sir Ian.
“Gandalf is the role of the lifetime of course” Couldn’t agree more, he’ll always be Gandalf far as I’m concerned. ^^ He’s just awesome all around.
No, don’t ‘get over it’. If a person believes something is wrong or sinful, they have a right and a duty to speak out against it. I think it also misses the point that it’s not something a person just ‘is’…they may not choose the urges and attractions they have, but they aren’t born that way. There’s also plenty of evidence that it’s possible to leave the lifestyle…people are wrong to try and suppress the ex-gay voice.
Well said, and I agree. I’m sure there’s plenty who’ll attack back, but so be it. I’m not going to ‘get over it’ and I never plan to. Ian McKellen is a cool guy, but that lifestyle choice is wrong.
And people like you two are one of the main reasons bigotry and ignorance run rampant. I’m not gay myself, but I have no problem with gays, and I am sick and DAMNED tired of hearing that being gay is “wrong” or simply a “lifestyle choice,” etc.
First of all, most SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE points to homosexuality being something you would be BORN WITH, with very few exceptions. If it was simply a “lifestyle choice,” then how come animals in nature, from beetles to dolphins, from swans to orangutans, exhibit homosexual tendencies? BECAUSE IT IS A NATURAL OCCURRENCE. I’d think it impossible for a beetle to make it a choice to be gay, wouldn’t you?
Second, regardless of who they are attracted to, they are still HUMAN BEINGS just like the rest of us, and deserve to be treated just the same as the rest of us. And, I don’t remember the last time I was told by a gay man that I was living the “wrong way” or making a poor “lifestyle choice” for being straight, so why do so many of us have to do it to them? It’s hypocrisy at one of its worst examples.
And, I do NOT want to hear “It’s in the Bible,” or “my religious beliefs say it’s a bad thing.” I have read the Bible, cover to cover, twice, and NOWHERE did I once read, literally or otherwise, that God Himself expressly forbade homosexuality and homosexual practices. Why? First, it has been proven, over and over again, that the Bible has been translated, interpreted/misinterpreted, and changed at the hands of human beings over the thousands of years of its existence to suit individual whims, thoughts, and desires; the King James version is an excellent example of this fact. So, while the Bible was originally the Word of God Himself, humans have allowed it to be changed too much over it existence to consider it a viable document of absolute truth anymore, and is now nothing more than a mere guide to how we should live. And, even as written now, any parts that supposedly declare homosexuality as “evil” or “wrong” were written as the thoughts of HUMAN BEINGS, and NOT God. If more so-called “Christians” would actually practice what they preached, and actually did more than just spew whatever misinterpretation they thought they had heard their preacher say on a Sunday morning about 6 years ago, they would actually READ THE BIBLE and actually understand what’s actually written there.
And don’t get me wrong, I wholeheartedly believe in God, but I am non-denominational, and I don’t believe in using my religious beliefs to simply spew rhetoric and bigotry towards ANYONE, much less gay people. Fred Phelps and the other pieces of retarded crap at Westboro Baptist “Church” are prime examples of just that, and while you two aren’t seemingly as loud-mouthed and completely f***ing stupid as those a**bags, you still are part of the problem by simply stating that you won’t “get over it,” and that you wrongly believe that being gay is “wrong” for whatever reasons you have. Bigotry, no matter what kind, is WRONG, PERIOD, and to believe otherwise, for any reason, is completely wrong as well.
Now that is a rant! Very nicely done.
Well said! I am so sick of these uber religious morons stating its a choice etc… It is scientifically proven that a gay person doesn’t choose to be gay anymore than a straight person chooses to be straight. Idiots like MM & J need to take a lesson from History, Hitler was a person who also felt he had a right to speak out against people etc… see how that ended up?
Personally I think those who openly speak out against gays are actually unsure of their own sexuality which is why Gays are so threatening to them.
AMEN, just AMEN to this, I love you, TheSaintOfPain.
)
You are my hero.
I commend this rant because this is exactly how I feel, but I am lesbian. I am also Christian and believe in God with my whole heart and if God did say it was a sin, then if you believe in Jesus you are forgiven! Also in Proverbs, which is the most quoted place for gay hate, it also says that any woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death. So you see, the Old Testament is just that, OLD!
YOU are my hero, TheSaintOfPain. What really bothers me is these people who call themselves “Christians” are doing the exact opposite of what their religion dictates. I was brought up to understand that Jesus Christ loved everyone no matter who they were, regardless of sexual orientation, creed, etc. I am also a non-denominational believer in God, and I truly believe that God loves everyone; he wouldn’t tell his followers that certain people are “wrong” just for being the way they are. And I would shoot every damn Westboro Baptist and all their supporters on Earth and other planets known in the face with a slingshot loaded with a lead brick if I had the chance. That is, if I were a violent person. But I’m not, so I’ll just imagine it.
And yes, you have to “get over it.” Gay people aren’t just going to go away just because you don’t like them. And no, it can’t be “cured.”
Oh, bra-VO, sir! Well ranted (and accurate).
OK here goes…
You’re wrong, its as simple as that, and your arguments are dug out of thin air friend
Homosexuality IS wrong, it is VERY wrong actually. look at our species, there is a female and a male human is there not? With me so far? Ok. Now surely you’re familiar with the reproductive process. no need to go into detail, but under ‘normal’ circumstances it requires both a male, and female human being to work. Correct? OK so with this in mind, surely it’s a logical assumption that it would be natural for a generic male human being to feel attracted to a generic female human being rather than a fellow male, and vice versa
Relating to the above, How do you logically explain homosexuality as anything other than a mental illness or similar? It’s certainly an abnormality. Consider that if the entire human race was ‘gay’ then we would all die out very quickly indeed. how can it possibly be natural, or encouraged for that matter?
You mentioned scientific evidence that shows that homosexuality is something that you’re ‘born with’. There is also strong scientific evidence that people could be born with the potential to be a mass murderer. (Something to do with how the individual brain works apparently) based on your argument, does it make that right also?
I’d also challenge your reasoning behind saying that animals in the wild exhibit homosexual tendencies. this is simply rubbish. other than in Humans, animals do not show any signs of homosexuality. if you can prove me wrong, find me some proof and i’ll gladly take that back, remember this is a debate not a fight
I’m Atheist, so i won’t even go into your ‘God’ argument. that’s a whole different can of worms
so, all in all. we won’t ‘get over it’. Some people are also rapists, do you want us to ‘get over’ that? or serial killers. are we ‘getting over’ that too?
The question in the third paragraph is a good one, especially because, at least in the United States, homosexuality has NOT been considered a mental illness since 1975. Your position on homosexuality, as far as biology is concerned, is totally preposterous. It remains a minority condition in all species in which it has been observed (species including squirrels and octopi, just from my personal knowledge, along with two captive male penguins who raised an egg together), your statement that it would cause the entire human race to die out is intentionally inflammatory and totally baseless, as is your statement about mass murder, and your apparent conflation of homosexuality with rapists and serial killers. Being gay in and of itself has no negative impact on anybody else. There is no harm whatsoever in a consensual homosexual relationship that isn’t also present in a heterosexual relationship. For a person claiming to be debating, this sure sounds like fightin’ words.
THANK YOU, Sylderon! UKSponge, you’re an idiot. There’s a variety of theories as to why homosexuality has persisted in numerous animal populations- kin selection theory is a a popularly cited one, as is the theory that bisexuality creates stronger social bonds and enables animals to defuse conflict via sexual expression (as may be the case in bonobo populations).
And seriously? Comparing homosexuals to rapists and serial killers? In our current social paradigm (and, indeed, in the social paradigm of almost every animal species), psychopathic tendencies such as these are maladaptive, often causing the animal in question to be ostracized from their social group, limiting their reproductive potential. Homosexuality, on the other hand, is not necessarily a maladaptive trait- homosexuals can help to protect the young of their family members, indirectly promoting the promulgation of their genes.
You’re certainly welcome. Also, I enjoy the name.
So according to you, people who don’t want children are ‘wrong’ as well? Since if all people were like that the human race would die out?
Rapists and serial killers harm OTHERs, show me one proof that being gay or childfree harms another living person.
Go on. I’ll wait.
HOW THE HELL has homosexuality EVER hurt others?!?!?! You’re comparing someone else’s sexual preference, that has NOTHING to do with you, with the mass slaughtering of fellow human beings?!?!
You have absolutely NO evidence behind your statement. People are born with Down’s Syndrome, does that make them wrong?? Are people born with Cerebral Palsy wrong? I’m not saying being gay is an illness, I’m just saying it’s something people are born with that they often have no control over.
AND, if you had done any research at all, you would know a thing or two about Bonobo Chimpanzees. Look it up, then tell me there’s no homosexuality in nature.
“HOW THE HELL has homosexuality EVER hurt others?!?!?!” You have never heard of NAMBLA, have you?
You know, not all homosexuals are pedophiles. And not all pedophiles are homosexual. Basically, I’m saying that you are an idiot.
NAMBLA is pedophiles, a group of very sick people who propound a harmful one-sided practice of self-satisfaction at the expense of vulnerable children.
Homosexuals are a group of normal people who happen to have a particular preference in partners who just want to be allowed to have positive consentual full relationships with their equals.
Last I checked, NAMBLA stood for, “North American Man-boy Love association.” Because of the fact that the group stands for men who believe in the loving in little boys, by default, every one of them is homosexual, in addition to being a pedophile.
Congratulations on demonstrating another logical fallacy.
If A is subset of B, and A is also C, that doesn’t mean that B is also C.
I could keep arguing with you, but I know this will be pointless, as you will shut off the opinions of everybody else except for the opinions that you agree with.
I’m not shutting out an opinion, I’m shutting out a totally illogical and erroneous conclusion. Looking at NAMBLA and saying that it is evidence that all homosexuals are pedophiles is simply absurd. Let me put this in other terms: What you are saying there is like saying that since Toyota manufactures cars, and that some of their cars are defective, therefore every car that Toyota manufactures must be defective. It is totally a logical fallacy; I’m not sure the exact name, but it is one.
Read the following article, it will put aside a lot of your arguments:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/6/14/875443/-I-Study-Homophobia
Let’s look at the facts here: members of NAMBLA are both homosexual and pedophiles. If NAMBLA were instead NAMMLA (North American Man-Man Love Association), they would simply be adult homosexuals, and it would be MUCH less frowned upon. If it were NAMGLA (North American Man-Girl Love association), It would be strongly frowned upon because even though its members were heterosexual, they would still be pedophiles (or is something as sick as pedophilia okay with you as long as it’s heterosexual?). NAMWLA (Man-Woman) would be totally socially acceptable because they are heterosexual AND not pedophiles.
In conclusion: NAMBLA is seen as sick and wrong because its members are interested in having sex with little boys, not because they’re homosexuals in general.
I wonder how many members of that “organisation” would consider themselves homosexual? How many of them have wives?
Even if you’re right, and they are all considered homosexuals, so what? They’re harmful because they’re pedophiles, not because they’re gay. By your logic, every man who fiddles a little girl is an example of the harmfulness of heterosexuality. Every abusive nun or priest is representative of the entirety of religion. The Klu Klux Klan is representative of US racial relations. etc etc so on and so forth…
(having trouble getting this to come up, so sorry for any repeats, and for breaking it up)
Wiki on homosexual behaviour in animals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Some primary sources on homosexual behaviour in animals, found through a quick Google Scholar search:
http://www.lavoisier.fr/notice/fr282682.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t18t2213605303j7/
http://www.springerlink.com/content/p4021223452r617q/
A paper on the genetics of homosexuality:
http://journals.lww.com/jonmd/Citation/1940/07000/Studies_on_the_Genetic_Determination_of.8.aspx
(post cont. Stupid not-working site…)
Evidence on the effect of birth-order (aka non-genetic pre-birth biological causes) on homosexuality:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mt0r1667527314x5/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10051890
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a783871576&db=all
It is theorised that the genes and other biological factors that sometimes result in homosexuality help produce reproductively advantageous traits in non-homosexuals. It is also theorised that evolutionarily homosexuals increase the fitness of their siblings. There are other possible advantages to having homosexuals in the population. Some evidence:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a904831825&db=all
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mt0r1667527314x5/
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(02)00363-8/abstract
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a713630022
(cont. post cont.)
Evolution can work on populations as well as individuals. Thus, a trait that is non-advantageous for an individual can be advantageous for a population. Thus, the focus on reproduction is not necessary.
The argument that “if everyone was gay we’d all die out” is absolutely absurd. It will NEVER HAPPEN, therefore there’s no point even discussing it. The exact same can be said of clergy, or really unlucky-in-love people, or people who have unfortunate accidents. It’s true, but so what? In any case, nowadays there are ways for homosexuals to breed, and they make just as good parents as anyone else. So, again, totally irrelevant argument.
A mass murder or rapist or serial killer is harmful to society and individuals. A homosexual is, at worst, neutral for society and beneficial to many individuals. So that argument is also irrelevant.
Our arguments are “dug out” of far thicker air than yours.
I applaud your effort, but I’m not sure that it wasn’t in vain. You see, the person at who all this evidence is directed is likely immune to obnoxious and inconvenient things like facts.
When you provide a bunch of links, your comment gets flagged as spam. It was awaiting moderation; that’s why you had a delay.
Yeah, I realised that eventually. When I posted those ones, it had a note on them saying “awaiting moderation”. But when I tried to post it before that, it didn’t come up at all…
As long as one person who is iffy about homosexuality because of misinformation reads what I wrote and is convinced to at least think about it, that’s good enough, even if that person isn’t the one I was responding to.
Serpentine, I <3 you!
o^_^o
Why are you comparing a rapist to a homosexual? Also about the male and female argument, do we really need more people on our planet?
*clap clap* Well said! I had actually forgotten that the bible has been interpreted in people’s own views, thanks for reminding me.
Hasn’t it also been looked into and proven that the language that the bibe was originally written in didn’t even have a word for gay? What we turned into gay/homosexual more meant ‘male prostitution’ than anything, from what I’ve researched.
Hear Hear!
Amen!
There’s one flaw in most folks’ arguments when it comes to this subject; That is, proving one cause does not disprove others.
Basically, I’ve seen in life, that both arguments are basically true.
People are born gay.
And
People choose to be gay.
Both situations exist. SOME people are born that way, and some people aren’t.
If we suppose that MOST people fall somewhere in the gray range between Bisexual and Straight on the Kinsey scale, meaning that they tend to be heterosexual because they were raised that way, this means that they are physically and psychologically -capable of- enjoying a relationship with their own gender.
So people who are raised heterosexual and who are attracted to the opposite sex may have experiences during their lives that cause them to choose to pursue homosexual relationships, this can happen any time during a person’s life.
At the same time, people who fall into the bisexual-gay gray range can enjoy physical intimacy in a heterosexual relationship, though because they’re more likely to make that choice because of social expectations, those relationships are often unsatisfying for them.
And then plenty of other people are born with atypical brain chemistry that makes them inherently attracted to their own gender. Sometimes this is combined with more androgynous behaviour since it’s part of an overall neurological shift to the opposite gender role. Scientifically proving that some people are homosexual because of this doesn’t rule out any other reasons. Human beings and human sexuality is a fluid and complex thing that involves many different components. From receptors for pheromones in our reptile brains to an appreciation for a sense of humor, or a nice car, or dressing well.
Thank you! I never understood why people seem to want to break complex beings down into one universal motivating factor. Always seemed rather foolish to me.
Thank you so much for this! As a queer person in the middle of the Kinsey scale, these are thoughts that go through my head every time this argument comes up (especially since I’ve chosen to spend my life with a woman rather than try to find a man). Why the heck does it matter if it’s a choice or an inborn trait? This is about respect and dignity for everyone.
Why is it so hard to believe that one can be born homosexual? You don’t believe that you chose to be heterosexual do you? If one can be born with an inclination towards one, then why not the other? Sure, someone born with an attraction to the same sex could choose to live a lie and just follow the current cultural norms to make their life easy, but that’s a pretty cruel thing to expect. Value systems that come from 2000+ year old books should be abandoned ASAP.
yep, burn all those old books you little Maoist, or is that Nazi? yep, get rid of all those Plato books, Aristotle needs to go, no more Sun Zu. Oh my! no more Kara Sutra even! those Books are over 2k years and have their own value systems. in your own logic, we need to get rid of them as well. JP you are the close minded bigot here. anyone, and i mean ANYONE who says that getting rid of books or any other deposits of information and history because you don’t like it is scum to me. The “Value system” in the Bible IS the a major part of the bible! if you don’t like it, don’t read it.
free speech and protecting knowledge is a sore spot to me, so watch what ya say, ok?
Two things here.
1: Somebody sure is butthurt!
2: Godwin’s Law means you fail.
ok, i’ve cooled off a bit, but JP came off sounding like a book burner and that annoys me greatly. so 1) yea i was and sorry for that, but i can’t help it. 2) Quote “Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.” Historically the Nazi were big on burning books, so my point still stands.
I can understand what JP was trying to say… The Bible is a source of a moral code that is shared by a group of people with some historical context. Relying on it to pass judgement is a silly concept, since each individual has a varying moral code. There is nothing wrong in believing in the Bible and what it says, but it IS wrong to pass judgement on modern situations and people! See the Bible for what it is.
There is nothing wrong with being gay (hey, if penguins and dolphins can do it, so can we). Let me go on a short tangent here for anyone as bored as I am trolling ROFLRAZZI.
I am Jewish, so yes, according to Christians I have horns and will probably go to Hell. Oh well, at least I can party it up with Einstein and Milk. Now, I’ve always believed that you love who you love through science so complicated it might as well be mystical. Religious or just your run of the mill bigots made me frustrated. Now, I’ve been taught about the Holocaust since I could pay attention in Sunday School. Only recently have I learned about it in a school setting.
Basically, Hitler had an idea about Jews, and he passed his ideas to an entire group of people. Let’s see: Blaming people for WHAT THEY ARE BORN WITH to have passed their sins and terrible deeds to the country, misrepresenting them to the public as PERVERTS and EVIL-DOO-ERS, and wanting to SPREAD HIS IDEA to “SAVE THE PUBLIC.” Sound similar? Not accepting the fact that maybe people are born gay (really, who would CHOOSE this level of hate and discrimination from their own neighbors)? Remember how Hurricane Katrina and AIDS was created by all of the gays? Just all of the stereotypes on TV proves point 2. MM and J also prove point 3.
I’m straight, but realizing the hate Jews felt by Hitler is what gay people face every morning, that made me effing FURIOUS. Now, I’m not saying everyone who feels uncomfortable by homosexuality is a Nazi. I’m saying that whoever you are, hate of an entire people, especially one that you don’t understand, will ruin our nation more than the “life style” of gay people. There is no more to say.
Gay people faced hate in the face of Hitler as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust
As did anyone who didn’t fit the Nazi Ideology – Gypsies, Slavs, Mentally and Physically Handicapped, the Insane (well that’s me buggered then
), Orthodox Christians, and probably many more (The Nazis were equal opportunities oppressors – They hated everyone 
)
What does it matter whether they are born with the “urge” to be homosexual or not? (Which has been proven, that the brain is different in that of a homosexual male than a hetero one. Just FYI) Who are you and anyone else to make a call as to how one should live their life? And whether the “choice” is wrong or not? Because you do not agree does not make it wrong, it means you simply disagree. I’m sure both you and the one above have slept (I’m assuming you’re not virgins) with people I would think are morally bankrupt and therefor I could condone your “lifestyle choice” as wrong.
It’s people like you, and others who follow the same ignorant beliefs that we as humans have any right as to how another lives, that cause the world to be full of so much pain and hate. What would happen if you did just “get over it”? What if you stopped giving a damn about what others did and focused solely on what YOU did? What if everyone did that? Hate would be an ancient word that’s lost all meaning.
Oh, and another little tidbit for you- The Holocaust happened because someone didn’t like another’s “lifestyle choice” too.
Nobody is born with a sexual preference; at least, not an active one. That manifests itself as they grow, in the same way that the pattern of his facial hair (and mine) developed. It wasn’t there when I was born, but the deciding factors were; it had yet to manifest itself. And yes, I suppose it is possible to leave the ‘lifestyle’…to continue living the rest of your life in painful denial and neurotic self-loathing, rather than being accepted for who you truly are. But that in itself is perhaps another sexual ‘deviancy’: It’s called masochism.
Go read a few scientific papers, it has been proven and yes you are born to have certain beard pattern etc. You are born with the genetic blueprint in place for what you will look like etc as an adult. Yes you can change it by artificial means such as surgery, over-eating (although even that can be determined to some extent by genes it seems) taking various drugs etc but that is the only way to change your genetic planned appearance.
So…are you agreeing with me? Perhaps I haven’t made myself clear: I think that the entire ‘ex-gay’ thing is nonsense.
I think he was so eager to be offended that he didn’t read past the first line
I only worded it like that because, strictly speaking, an baby cannot be said to have a sexual preference. Hence, why I used the example of the beard. They are both latent characteristics that one is born with, which manifest themselves in adolescence.
I heard that the jury is still out on science.
That is the nature of science. Almost everything is a theory, outside of gravity, entropy, and the transmutation of energy from one form to another. Your point?
Actually, the jury is sort of still out on gravity. Things like do gravitons exist, if so where, does gravity span all dimensions, what does that mean for time, can a the gravity of a black hole actually form a pocket universe, etc. Now granted, gravity is not one that is debated too heatedly, however it does still come under review every so often.
However, the existance of the force that keeps dragging us back to this planet when we jump is not subject to debate, only its nature and technical aspects are.
Oh, and gravity is subject to theory (the Theory of Gravity, in fact), and I believe entropy and transmutation of energy are too though I don’t know what it’s called (and it might be a Law, instead).
Also Germ Theory, and Round Earth Theory, and…
Gravity is just a secular conspiracy to deny the truth of Intelligent Falling!
Gravity is a myth – The Earth sucks
You may think you have a ‘right’ to spout intolerance, just as the person I fired last year did too.
He wouldn’t shut up about how it was wrong and disgusting that another member of staff was gay, despite warnings to cut that out, so yeah, I fired a homophobe.
He now has a ‘right’ to spout his idiotic people-hating stuff at home. Unemployed.
WIN. Good for you for doing the right thing, CDThe.
You don’t happen to be in manufacturing, do you? Because you sound like a pretty cool boss.
Nope, IT. I don’t care what colour, age, sexual preference, religion, marital status or whatever someone is, so long as they can do the job.
I don’t have a good reputation with HR though as they think I should be a little less harsh on people who like to try and convert others in the office.
Your HR people sound a bit stupid. No offense. I agree with what you did – you can’t have people telling others that they need to “convert” all the time. It makes other workers feel unwanted and unwelcome. Unhappy workers are not motivated workers, and workers who are unmotivated are more likely to do a bad job on their projects.
Tell your HR people to stop trying to convert you? Haha..
Well, I believe it’s “wrong/sinful” to believe that being gay is “wrong/sinful.”
And since you just reminded me I have a right and a duty to speak out against the things I don’t believe….
GET OVER IT. Seriously.
Hi! Daughter of evil lesbos here. Lived my entire life in the gay culture, consider myself culturally ‘culturally queer’ (it’s home!), was running naked at women’s music festivals from the time I could walk, grew up reading Dykes to Watch Out For the comic strip, could sing the ‘Amazon Alphabet’ when I was 4…
Still straight.
Seriously, if I didn’t catch it, it can’t be caught. I never chose to be straight, and neither did you, and my moms didn’t chose to be lesbians. Why would gay people choose to get harassed, beaten up, discriminated against, and lectured to by people like you if they could just choose to be ‘normal’? Yes, with years of therapy you can brainwash yourself into pretending to be something you’re not, but why should anyone have to?
Also, what the heck is ‘the lifestyle’? My parents own a home in a small town, sell cars and work in a food co-op respectively, pay their taxes, and like like baseball, good food, and getting together to play card games and Mah Jongg with folks from their neighborhood. How come other people have lives, but if you’re gay, you have a ‘lifestyle’? Seriously, without checking inside someone’s pants, you wouldn’t be able to distinguish them from a freakin’ Norman Rockwell painting.
You rock.
Win. One of my friends is a homosexual guy – When I first told my Mom about the new friend I made, her first reaction was to ask if he was single and if I would date him, but when I told her he’s gay she asked, “Are you going to go to clubs together? Gay men have great taste, you know, I used to get them in at work and they would be fruiting around, it was so cute…” I just kinda fell silent and facepalmed. There was a lot of explaining to do. I think a lot of people just see movies and TV and think that’s how all gay people act, but what kind of backwards thinking is that? If you follow TV and movies, then most women are promiscuous tramps and most men are weight-lifting hunks with great hair.
Siani WIN. Your Moms rock!
“Gay men have great taste” – a search for Perez Hilton &Roflrazzi will soon disprove that stereotype!
You seriously rock.
Pay no attention to the anti-gay bigots in this thread. They’ll grow up one day :p
Similarly, using your own argument, I have a right and a duty to stand up to you and tell you that you are an ignorant bigot.
That picture is such THE WIN!
Magento is right!
Sir Ian… All round great bloke and an epic win!
Okay but why do they think they should be congratulated for it?
Are you freakin’ kidding me? When I come out to someone, the second to last thing I want to hear (after bigoted, hate-filled bull) is “oh, that’s so awesome!” or “that’s so cool!” or “rockin’!” etc. Why? Because just as we shouldn’t be spat on, LGBTQ people are not some strange, yet interesting species to be admired. Because my orientation should be just as inconsequential a topic as your being straight (I assume this, due to your comment). I should be able to mention something in passing about a same-gender partner/interest without the other person’s eyebrows shooting up or them interrupting the conversation to chastise me (or congratulate me), just like you can mention an opposite-gender partner/interest in passing in conversation without it being an issue.
Hence, GET OVER IT. That is, don’t tell me that I’m going to hell, but also don’t act like you’ve just come across some amazing, rare species of bird. Get over it.
Bloop, you have to admit that it takes a hell of a lot of courage to be openly gay in our strongly anti-gay society (let’s be honest, a lot more courage than we straight people will probably ever need). I suspect those people who make comments like “that’s so cool!” or “rockin’!” want to express their support and admiration for your fearlessness but just don’t know how to do so articulately. Having known openly gay friends and acquaintances who have been harassed by the police, discriminated against at work, rejected by their families, spat upon, yelled at, and beaten, I consider anyone who knowingly and willingly accepts the consequences in order to be true to him/herself pretty damned “awesome!”
I hear Gandalf had a fling with Dumbledore.
Well, they do have a lot in common…
Hate is easy. It takes no effort, intelligence, knowledge or understanding. Love takes work. It takes caring, compassion, empathy, sacrifice.
Those who take the easy road are left on the wayside of history,
Those who take the road of Love endure, spread light, ease pain, share suffering, find beauty, see God in all things.
Those who take the easy road seek God, yet never find him, though they are want to claim his name.
You argument is flawed. You base this entirely on the hope that God exists.
*Your* I KNEW I shouldn’t have been typing this late.
I’m just glad to see that there is so much love and support for the gay community. Straight chicks for gay rights!
oxox
Let me guess… you are only supporting gay rights because right now everybody else is supporting it?
Bisexual chicks for gay rights! Oh, and I’m supporting it because it’s what I am.
if todays society didn’t approve of homosexuality then there would be fewer supporters. it all stems from go with the flow
Man, what is this? Beat up the christian religion day here? Where is the REAL tolerance around here? i guess there really isn’t any. Look at what you are say in this place! most of you guys are sounding JUST WHAT YOU CLAIM WHAT THE OTHER SIDE IS LIKE! I can see a number of you need to stop and look at yourself real hard and think what really is inside your heart if that is your normal reaction to someone else’s view point.
on another point. Why are you people so down on Christianity NOW over things it did in the past but not doing now on a wholesale lvl. when the REAL danger is from the Islamic religion that ALSO did that in the past but IS NOW still attacking and killing homosexuals to this day in large numbers! the worse of Christians will more likely than not just wave around signs that will offend you or talk badly, a muslim of the same bad bent will more likely to BEHEAD YOU, SHOOT YOU, BLOW YOU UP, and/or SEND LAWSUITS AT YOU. not always in that order.
don’t believe me? that’s fine, just yahoo (or google if you’re into getting your privacy violated) it up and looks around.
It’s not so much beating up on the Christian religion, as it is beating up on self-described ‘Christians’ serving as bad examples of their faith, through their hypocrisy and intolerance. Also, you demonstrate your own intolerance by saying that Islam is dangerous. It is only dangerous when it is perverted by those insecure in their faith and seeking more power for themselves, which is also a thread that runs through just about every religion and ideological system, that there are those who will abuse it for their own gains. On that same note, it would seem that you yourself are perhaps insecure in your faith, since you try to counter points that haven’t even been made in this argument; nobody has yet mentioned the various crimes committed in the name of Christianity, although I could list a few, if you’d like. Rather, it would seem that your response to your insecurity of faith is to be reflexively defensive, even when your defense is entirely out of context of the current argument.
what does my faith have anything to do with this other than derailing this topic? Have you even read the Koran before?
I admit that I haven’t read the Koran. However, I do know that Thomas Jefferson, of all people, owned one, and gave it to the University of Virginia along with the rest of his personal library. I also know that the most-often quoted lines about murdering infidels are actually in reference to an ancient war against the Persians, and are often taken out of context by modern jihadists; the perversion that I referred to earlier. You know, just like those parts of the Old Testament in which the Israelites destroyed entire cities and everybody within because they were infidels.
How is someone campaigning for gay tolerance being ‘anti-christian’?
is think he is troll
Oh and comparing all muslims to a few extreme nutbars is just like saying that all christians murder abortion doctors. Just sayin’
Wait, what? Were did Islam come into play (yes, the religion is called “Islam,” no need to call it the “Islamic religion,” that’s like saying the “Christian religion”)? Also, things Christians did in the PAST? What newspapers are you reading?
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating the Christian religion, I agree with Sylderon. Are Muslims blowing people up? Yes, but only a small fraction of a large religious group. Religious fanaticism exists in ANY religion. I find some parts of Christianity beautiful, as I do with Judaism and Islam. I don’t necessarily practice other faiths, but I understand them.
Your point about how people need to stop hating on Christianity for their past bad deeds (like stoning, lynching, gay-bashing, etc.) is completely moot because your evidence is you hating on another religion.
Uhm, so wait. If I am reading you right then; Every religion has fanatics trying to murder, explode, or severely harm people of differing faiths?
When was the last time you heard about a Buddhist going on a rampage?
What about Hellenistic Reconstuctionists? Kemetists? In fact, I am extremely curious to hear of -any- Jainists killing anyone.
Just a thought.
Any religion has fanatics, I was kicked out of a pagan group for refusing to have children – apparently this is ‘anti-goddess’.
Fanatic doesn’t always mean murderer.
MAGNETO!! <3
MAGNETO is right!
That video freakin rocks!
I also wished Sir Ian would have played Dumbledor, but maybe now he could do a special appearance as Grindewald?
Fantastic Idea
That could work. Well, assuming the timeline would allow for the battle between them to happen when both are old. (It’s been a while since I read Deathly Hallows.)
Ugh. Why is this picture even on here??
I’m sorry that you can’t handle his awesomeness.
Since when is being gay the equivalent of awesomeness?
No, being an awesome actor is the equivalent of awesomeness. Please stop making stupid inferences.
Sry, it is just that there so much supportion for gay rights nowadays, it seems like people are PRAISING people for being gay. It is as if they think being gay is an advantage. This would have never happened if the politically correct movement was extinct. Just as people don’t like certain people bashing on homosexuals, individuals such as myself also don’t like the idea that homosexuality is an idea to be an accepted in our society. Okay, now that my rant is over, WHO WANTS MILK AND COOKIES?!
I certainly don’t want them from YOU, cause you’re an intolerant little tool.
First of all, I’m atheist, so I have to tolerate other people’s religions in society, even though I may not agree with their viewpoints. Second of all, I just stated my opinion, and all of a sudden, people are bashing me, saying I’m an idiot, bigot, intolerant nazi, etc. Just because somebody doesn’t agree with your opinion, doesn’t automatically give you the right to blatantly criticize others.
Yeah, you’re being so tolerant by whining about religion every chance you get. Whiny atheists are, no doubt, the most defensive little trolls ever. If you’re so damned certain that God just cannot exist, then why do you feel that you need to defend your beliefs so heavily? Why do you need to attack others for believing something? Because you’re defensive. Stop it.
You’ve consistently shown yourself to be a knee-jerk reactionary little tool. The whole point of this picture is that, yeah, people are gay, big deal.
Agreed, keep them to yourself. Also, I dunno where did you see anyone praising gays for being gays. Last time I checked, people praised gays for standing up for their rights, and not letting intolerant pricks put them down. Yes, we live in a world where public displays of personal courage, standing up for your fellow men and for social progress are appreciated. Like it or not.
“Why do women want all these advantages like equal pay and suppression of sexist language? It’s like they want to be PRAISED for being female!”
“What’s with all the support for black rights? All these scholarships to make up for their social disadvantages, it’s like they think being black is an advantage.”
“This black US president never would have happened if the politically correct movement was extinct!”
Anyone else seeing a bit of a trend in the world at the moment?
Oh yes, the old “MY viewpoint must be accepted by the world but nobody else’s can” whine of the terminally stupid.
I wish I didn’t have to accept bigots like you in society but I have to. My only consolation is that I can actually fire twits like you when you start spouting your hate-filled stuff in my office.
Why is it that whenever somebody doesn’t tolerate or agree with the idea of homosexuality, people automatically assume that person is a bigot?
Because it’s true?
It’s like not tolerating women having jobs, it’s basic human rights really, and by speaking out against something which doesn’t harm people and has no effect on you it makes you out to be pretty creepy to be honest.
What two consenting adults get up to in their own bedroom is none of your business. Find other stuff to get offended about.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to go make my travel arrangements – I’m attending my cousin’s wedding. Where he is marrying his long term partner. Yes they are both male and I am truly happy for them.
That must stick in your craw.
Because it’s true? That seems like a pathetic way to defend yourself. I am still waiting for a legitimate answer.
Okay, here’s a legitimate answer.
Homosexuality is not an idea, opinion or choice you can disagree with. It’s an intrinsic bilogical quality of a group of people. Saying you disagree with homosexuality is like saying “I disagree with people being black”, or “I disagree with left-handedness”. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? That’s because society has matured enough to accept people with a different skin color or people using a different hand for eating. Western societies are growing more and more acceptive towards homosexuals, and I’m sure that fifty years from now, people will look back and won’t even understand how people in our time could think that denying gay people the right to marry or to serve in the military was anything less than discrimination and a civil rights outrage. But I digress. Going back to bigotry, let me point you towards the dictionary definition(s) of the word bigot.
“Bigotry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. The correct use of the term requires the elements of intolerance, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs.
The term has evolved to refer to persons hostile to people of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, religion in modern English usage.”
“Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
bigot
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance”
There. People who don’t tolerate or agree with the idea of homosexuality *are* bigots.
Great response – I doubt he’ll read it though. He hasn’t read anything esle factual given.
Well, your answer “Because it’s true” was perfectly right to begin with, I just took the liberty of expanding it. And yes, the dead silence that I got in reply is the most one can expect from these people. Sometimes they try to suddenly change the subject, but one thing they’ll never do is admit that you are right.
Actually that word is probably now a bastardisation of the original French word as in French Bigot would be prononouced Big-oh (or so I believe, my old dear speaks French and Spanish and told me that -ot in French is normally pronounced oh, I manage to make do with German, Afrikaans, a little Dutch and Japanese and a very little Russian. I can’t speak French at all.) whereas in English the word is pronouced Big-OT. It would probably be one of the few French words used in English that don’t keep to their original pronounciation – such as Rendevous, and menage-a-tois (Kids if you’re wondering what a menage a tois is ask your Parents. Go on!! Tell them I told you to
)
Okay, try this: Why do you think you have any right to dictate what other adults can or cannot do in their private lives?
I’d take a good long look about what exactly about being gay offends you so much – is it that two lesbians can’t have children? Is it that you find the idea of certain bedroom activities repulsive? What exactly is it?
And you haven’t answered the question of if it is because reproduction can’t occur – why are you not against childfree relationships?
Again, I’m still waiting for your answer on a question earlier:
How is being gay or childfree hurting another person?
(you said being gay is wrong because you can’t have children. Well, childfree couples don’t either)
Best of luck to your cousin and his partner. May they have many happy years together. *salute*
Bigotry is wrong – in any form – against any religion, color, creed, political affiliation, or human being. Haters just need to grow up.
I know your gay. I don’t mind but neither do I care. Its your choice so why do you constantly have to keep saying that you are gay.
We know and we don’t care, GET OVER IT.
Um, fail? He didn’t say he’s gay. He said some people are gay. The rest is just inference on your part. A straight guy could be wearing that shirt and the point would still remain valid. Also, I can’t believe noone ever told you this, but being gay is not a choice. And who is this “we” you are referring to? I hope you’re not referring to all of society since it’s pretty obvious that a lot of people do care, and not in a good way. They are the ones who need to “get over it”. There’s a Hungarian saying: if it’s not your shirt, don’t wear it. If you’re this upset about Ian McKellan standing up for gay acceptance, then I think it IS “your shirt”. So, *you* get over it.
Obviously you do care, since you keep QQing over it.
That T-shirt is from a campaign in the UK to reduce the bullying that occurs in schools and colleges when it becomes apparent that a classmate is gay.
I think you’d be against bullying?
I just don’t see McKellan as a t-shirt sort of guy.
I’m against t-shirts. They’re wrong, sinful, and an affront to God. I’m not shirtist or anything, I just think that t-shirts are unnatural and we shouldn’t be encouraging people to wear them. You don’t see animals wearing them, do you? I don’t want my children being taught by any damn t-totaller. It’s a bad example!
*snicker-purrs*
Any opinion is ok as long as its the right one eh folks?
Heres a wee scenario about tolerance for you. Two people meet in a bar and begin to talk, one admits to keeping lizards, the other is very uncomfortable with this idea as it goes against fundamental parts of his religion. Is it more tolerant for the second person not to say anything at all about his problems with the lizards or to talk openly about it?
I am hoping most of you think talking openly about it is more tolerant. Tolerance does not mean sweeping the other part of the debate under the carpet, tolerance is also not attacking people for thier love/lack of love of lizards. Tolerance is accepting a person as a person despite their lizard preference.
When a Muslim and a Christian can sit together and have a good dicussion about thier religions without falling out that is tolerance. When someone can say to a gay person “I am sorry but I am not too comfortable with homosexuality” and not be nasty about it or get a nasty response thenthat is tolerance. The homosexual person is also able to accept that not everyone is comfortable with it for whatever reason.
You can be uncomfortable around gays all you want, but you shouldn’t point that out to them, it’s impolite. Just like you shouldn’t point it out to your fiancée that you find gingers creepy while her ginger sister is sitting in the back seat of your car. One guy did exactly that, and he submitted it to learnfrommyfail.com, and let me tell you: he’s not getting a whole lot of love in the comments.
Btw I’m left-handed too. Being left-handed when sitting around a crowded table will make the (most likely) right-handed person sitting to your left uncomfortable, since chances are our elbows are going to bump into each other while eating. This happened countless times and guess what: noone has ever pointed that out to me, or asked to use my right hand for eating. Apparently, instead of asking others to change who they are, people can accept that we are all different, and that it leads to bumping elbows every once in a while.
I worded that bad, I am sorry. I do stand by the fact that you should be able to speak openly about opinions you have regardless of whether your opinion is popular. Walking up to someone in the street and saying “I am uncomfortable with your lifestyle” is not something i would reccomend but in my experience I would prefer to know that friends of mine had problems with certain aspects of my life than harbouring a resentment. If they tell me we can discuss and we can both gain a better understanding of each others viewpoints as good friends should. Quite a few of my friends are Christian and have often broached the subject of my religion and i have asked about theirs. I’m not a Christian I don’t know what its like to live that life so by discussing with my friends i gained a better insight and understanding. A lot of people would be a lot more comfortable with homosexuality if they could talk about what makes them uncomfortable. It should be able to come up in conversation easily without either side being offended but being someone that is perfectly comfortable with my own sexuality and others i cannot say i know how such a convo would come about.
If i was one of the people in your example I admit i would scoot round a bit so we wern’t banging elbows or if i couldn’t i would polity ask if you could maybe move a bit as it is no doubt uncomfortable for you too and I would not want you to be feelign guilt for banging into me or resentment towards me cause i didnt do anything to aleviate the situation. I would not dream of asking you to use your right hand however cause that would be expecting you to be like me and would not be me accepting you for who you are.
Yes i do have very odd views :S I stil ldont think ive worded what I meant correctly but I’ll keep trying. its annoying me that i cant get the point across without sounding like im uncomfortable or trying to force people to change.
No, I see what you’re getting at. A frank, respectful discussion is better than both resentful, secretive silence and abusive explosion, and I think it’s quite possible for the former to lead to the latter.
I’m also left handed, and I’ve come across that very problem before when it comes to sharing desks with people. If there’s little space, I’ll often make sure I’ve got my writing hand at the end of the table, instead of between us. It’s as inconvenient for me as it is to the other, otherwise.
I also don’t think the left-handedness was a very good example
I think it is like most people would agree – if someone doesn’t understand your life choices or preferences and has a genuine desire to ask about it then there is no problem.
It’s when it comes down to misconceptions, lies or outright attacks that the fights start. I’ve had people demand to know why I’m never having children, some who then go on to tell me that I’m wrong and need therapy, others who try to make out that I’m dangerous around kids because I must want to kill them all etc.
My cousin who is gay and has been ‘out’ for over 30 years has endured similar – people who lecture to him about how wrong he is, or try to tell him that he shouldn’t be allowed near children because gay=kiddy fiddler in their eyes.
If you don’t personally approve of someone’s life but don’t want to know any more about it, just change the subject. If you do want to know, ask respectfully and don’t get offended when they refuse to discuss it.
For example, I know a good friend of mine disapproved of my religion (I’m pagan, he’s catholic) for the simple fact that he would change the subject every time it came up. He did attend my wedding though which meant that while he didn’t approve, he was respectful.
Urrg i used to get stick all the time for not wanting kids, even worse was the knowing smile from female relatives as they said “you will change when you are older” Funnily enough i have ended up having a child but now i annoy them because i do not gush over baby clothes or get all teary around babies. People get attacked for the silliest things.
I agree with just changing the subject if you dont want to know about it. The sexuality or religion shouldnt define the person. Theres a lot of way to go before all the persecution is gone from the world but hopefully we are on our way.
“I am sorry, but I am not too comfortable with black people.”
There, how does that sound?
please read other comments made under mine. As i pointed out already I am struggling with the wording of what I mean. My example was obviously a gross exageration of how a convo would go. And anyway if it gets right down to it isn’t the way you have said it infinatly better than shouting abuse at someone for being black? Im not saying its the right thing to say but what is?
“I’ve heard a lot of bad things about black people. How much of it is true?”
Yeah, people… get over it!!!
Ian McKellen rules !!!!!!!!
it is actually fun to be on music festivals because i love music so much ‘